• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Can you help balance my horse's ration?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Can you help balance my horse's ration?

    Sorry in advance. Before I met COTH, i had NO IDEA that there were so many things to think about when figuring this out.

    My 9 year 14 hand pony mare is an easy keeper with nice feet.

    Im moving to a new barn soon and have the opportunity to decide what I want her to get fed. At my previous barn, I had "input" but it was the manager's final decision and....honestly, input really wasnt welcome.

    She is not IR and she has no signs of cushings or ulcers. She is in moderate dressage and light jumping work spring-fall and light work in the winter.

    She is currently on MSM (for uveitis) and corta-flex for joint support. When I move, I plan to start her smartpak EZ keeper grass vitamin. She will be getting plenty of grass hay and will be out 12 hours on pasture, supplemented with hay in the winter. She will most likely wear her muzzle all summer at new place; the fields are big!

    Now, for the big questions: should I add in a lb of protein supplement (TC 30% or something similar) or should I just keep it simple and use a handful of whatever the barn uses just to chase her supplements down? Also, how about those omegas? Im considering adding in smartshine or something similar to that.

    Have I fallen victim for Smartpak's marketing ploy?

  • #2
    Grass = plenty of Omega 3, even if she's muzzled.

    TC30 - at her size, no way 1lb. 1/2lb is about all I'd do, especially given she will probably need muzzling. I'd try *either* the 1/2lb TC30 (or whatever other RB) OR the v/m supplement with a handful of beet pulp or alf pellets or whatever is easy.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      thanks for the omega 3 info! Great to know.

      The only reason I suggested 1 lb is because she is on 3 lbs right now of a high protein/high fiber grain and she hasnt gained too much weight but she wasnt getting enough forage or really any at all (long story-reason Im leaving)

      1/2 lb sounds better and cheaper!

      Comment


      • #4
        Ok - you might just have to play it by ear when she gets all that grass and see how it goes. 1lb of a RB is fewer calories, obviously, than 3lb of a grain, but by more than just the lb difference, since the grain likely has several 100 more cal/lb than the RB does.

        If you need something in between, there's TC Lite.
        ______________________________
        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

        Comment


        • #5
          I would use the TC 30 over the multi-vite unless she gets fat on air. You didn't really mention exactly how much of an easy keeper she is.

          I think 1/2 lb is a bit low of an estimate for a rb going into winter. I would have her at 3/4 or even 1 lb. My 15 hh QH and 14.2 Morgan are both on 1 lb and do well. In the summer however, putting her down to 1/2 lb would be a good idea, or even taking her off of the rb and putting her on a multi-vite.
          Even though rb's are for "easy keepers" they are overall calorie dense, and not for complete air ferns. It's really up to you to judge what your horse needs. I will say that I like how my horses look on the TC 30 over the multi-vite.

          Grass will provide lots of omega 3's in the summer, when it is lush and growing, but dormant grass in the winter and hay won't do the same. I have my horse on whole flax seeds for omega 3's, which I keep them on year round, as well as MSM. Whole flax is inexpensive, I feed 1/2 cup to my easy keepers and 1 cup to my "hard keepers".

          I used Corta-Flx at one point and wasn't overly impressed. If you really want to do something good for her joints, look into Pentosan! I have my QH on it and he is moving VERY well right now...maybe a little too well.
          come what may

          Rest in peace great mare, 1987-2013

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Are you soaking or grinding your flax? I have used soaked flax before and loved it when i was taking care of my own horse but never in a boarding situation.

            Comment


            • #7
              No, I don't soak or grind, I just feed it whole. Everyone from a 25 yr old TB mare to a 7 year old Morgan pony get whole flax, it really makes them "bloom".
              come what may

              Rest in peace great mare, 1987-2013

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                good to know. Seems half say to soak and the other half say sont worry about it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think the general opinion on COTH is that feeding it whole is fine. But I know there have been a few threads on it, it might be best to search it and read for yourself. I just know that I personally have never had a problem.
                  come what may

                  Rest in peace great mare, 1987-2013

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SAcres View Post
                    I think 1/2 lb is a bit low of an estimate for a rb going into winter.
                    But you feed RBs for nutrition, not for calories. If "going into winter" means "might need more food", then a RB might not be the right choice.

                    At 14h and being an easy keeper, I just don't know that I'd go with a full pound. 14h and a harder keeper, sure, no problem.
                    ______________________________
                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JB View Post
                      But you feed RBs for nutrition, not for calories. If "going into winter" means "might need more food", then a RB might not be the right choice.

                      At 14h and being an easy keeper, I just don't know that I'd go with a full pound. 14h and a harder keeper, sure, no problem.
                      Not exactly where I was going JB, although you are completely correct. Going into winter means less nutrition from grass. Less nutrition from grass would make me want to increase the pony's RB.
                      I think it really depends on how much of an easy keeper the pony is. I know you mentioned she was on 3 lb. of grain and wasn't gaining a ton of weight, so you might find that 1 lb. isn't too much. It really just depends on the pony/her workload, forage, etc. You will be changing a lot of things about her diet in the coming weeks, there is no way to predict what amount of RB will be best for her. Who knows, with free choice hay and access to pasture, you may find an RB provides too many calories!
                      come what may

                      Rest in peace great mare, 1987-2013

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JB View Post
                        ...
                        If you need something in between, there's TC Lite.
                        In the case of an easy keeper, TC Lite may actually provide more calories than the TC 30.

                        TC Lite is fed at a rate of about 2 lbs per day, and provides 1150 calories per pound. That is 2300 calories per day if fed at 2 lbs daily.

                        TC 30 is fed at a rate of 1 lb per day, and provides 1266 calories per pound. So, 1266 calories daily.

                        You would be feeding double the calories if you fed TC Lite at the recommended daily rate.

                        I got this info from TC when I was looking for a ration balancer and wasn't sure if TC Lite would be the better option. The cost/lb was cheaper for the TC 30 (therefore cheaper per day because you feed only 1 lb vs 2 lbs) and my horses don't need the extra calories.
                        "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think you need to look at her roughage (aka hay) intake at your new barn and then build a grain diet around that (if you even need to at all!).

                          My pony (granted she is 10.3) gets soaked hay and then a 1/2 cup (measuring one that we use for baking) of grain 2x a day and that is a. to get her morning MSM in her and b. to shut her up.

                          Personally I would go with a vit/min supplement (I use Purina Equalizer) and then the hay. And then go from there once she's settled in to her new home, routine, hay etc. Don't underestimate what horses get out of good quality hay (and the correct amount too!).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Going into winter means less nutrition from grass. Less nutrition from grass would make me want to increase the pony's RB.
                            Of course, but you would be feeding hay in place of grass, right?

                            Without knowing what's in your hay or at least what TYPE of hay, and how much, the horse gets, it's impossible to help you "balance a ration".

                            My horses get 75% grass and 25% hay in summer (sometimes 100% grass) and virtually no grass and all hay in the winter--their grain/supplement requirement is not based on time of year or whether their forage is grass or hay, but rather how much work they're doing, their weight, and is based on hay analysis, done yearly.

                            It is worth (IMO) making sure that vitamins A, D and E are accounted for during the winter months when they're getting no or minimal green grass, as these nutrients are not as available in hay and the lack of sunshine can lead to vitamin D levels falling. The same for omega-3s if one is concerned about giving them in a certain amount, although I'm not sure there is an "RDA" for these.
                            Click here before you buy.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                              Of course, but you would be feeding hay in place of grass, right?

                              Without knowing what's in your hay or at least what TYPE of hay, and how much, the horse gets, it's impossible to help you "balance a ration".

                              My horses get 75% grass and 25% hay in summer (sometimes 100% grass) and virtually no grass and all hay in the winter--their grain/supplement requirement is not based on time of year or whether their forage is grass or hay, but rather how much work they're doing, their weight, and is based on hay analysis, done yearly.

                              It is worth (IMO) making sure that vitamins A, D and E are accounted for during the winter months when they're getting no or minimal green grass, as these nutrients are not as available in hay and the lack of sunshine can lead to vitamin D levels falling. The same for omega-3s if one is concerned about giving them in a certain amount, although I'm not sure there is an "RDA" for these.
                              This is true. But depending on hay quality the horse may or may not be getting similar vit/min content from hay. As a general rule, vit/mins degrade in hay, whereas they do not in grass. Of course if possible the hay should be tested to see what needs to be fed, vit/min wise, but this is not always easy to do, especially in a boarding situation. Adding an extra 1/4-1/2 lb of a ration balancer isn't going to OD the horse on anything, and if hay can't be tested it seems like a logical thing to do IMO.
                              I personally don't increase or decrease feed based on season, but I will based on quality of forage.

                              I do completely agree though that a ration shouldn't be adjusted simply because grass isn't available anymore.
                              come what may

                              Rest in peace great mare, 1987-2013

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                1/4 or 1/2 lb. of a ration balancer might very well be the way to go, but I personally would rather just use an appropriate vitamin/mineral supplement if that was what was lacking, since most of my horses are very easy keepers and for a couple of them the only concentrate they GET, even in work, is 1/2 pound a day! I'm a fan of ration balancers and base most of my horses' diets on hay and Purina's Enrich 32, but another 1/2 pound for a horse who doesn't need the calories is a suboptimal way of getting more vitamins on board. If vitamins are what is lacking, I feed a vitamin.
                                Click here before you buy.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by SuckerForHorses View Post
                                  In the case of an easy keeper, TC Lite may actually provide more calories than the TC 30.
                                  Which is why I said "if you need more than just a RB, TCL might be the way to go"

                                  TC Lite is fed at a rate of about 2 lbs per day,
                                  1lb/500lb for ponies, 1-2lb/500lb for horses, so the total rate depends on the size of the horse.
                                  ______________________________
                                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Thanks everyone! She will be getting grass hay.

                                    I was thinking also that TC lite would be more calories per 1/2 lb than the TC 30 or even the SS Solution 14/6, which is what she is on now but at 3 quarts (another long story-you may have read earlier posts) because my current barn is using it to replace hay so Ill probably go the route of:
                                    1/2 lb TC 30 or SS 14/6
                                    vitamin/mineral supplement
                                    MSM
                                    Corta-flex
                                    tablespoon flaxseed

                                    And see how it goes. I do want to keep the corta-flex because I do think it helps her stifle.

                                    Thanks everyone for your input! Im learning so much!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      ActNatural, you shouldn't need a vit/min supplement AND an RB, it is a waste of money to feed both. Pick one or the other. If you go with the multi vite, you can use a cup of dry bp (which you would then soak) or a cup of alfalfa pellets to "carry" the supplement and her other supplements. An RB is essentially a multi-vite with protein built in. Even at 1/2 lb your pony should still be getting an adequate amount of vit/mins.

                                      Also, IMO it is pretty pointless to just feed a tablespoon of flax. At minimum I feed 1/2 cup to my easy keepers. Even stabilized/fortified ground flax products like Omega Horseshine and Smart Omega 3's have you feeding more than a tablespoon.
                                      come what may

                                      Rest in peace great mare, 1987-2013

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Ill have to check with the boarding barn to see if they will do soaked BP. I wish feed stores sold smaller bags of BP or TC lite to single horse owners with easy keepers! Ill try to find someone to split it with me.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X