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Update on Founder with Link to Pics and X-Rays- Update on Post 60

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  • #61
    Oh dear. What a mess.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #62
      Originally posted by Tom Bloomer View Post
      Oh dear. What a mess.
      Oh can you explain what's wrong please.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #63
        New x-rays are up!

        http://s1297.beta.photobucket.com/us...0November%2013

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Tom Bloomer View Post
          Oh dear. What a mess.
          ^THIS^

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          • #65
            I can't read LMH or Tom's posts because I block them so I don't know what their response was....but I don't like the heel height with that wedge on the right front at all. That is a serious rotation and raising the heel is actually creating an even more drastic angle. What is the vet and farriers reasoning?

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            • Original Poster

              #66
              The right front doesn't have any wedge if by wedge you mean pad. He is club footed on the right front though and when comparing X-Rays from 2008 to now of the right front it really has not changed at all. However, both vet and farrier are of the opinion of bringing his right heel down gradually so the angles on the hoof end up better overall.

              Would that be correct?

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              • Original Poster

                #67
                LMH, Can you elaborate please?

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                • #68
                  Sorry, I looked quickly and saw the heel off the block, and didn't look much closer (was thinking he had glue ons or something). Yes, the heel needs to come down gradually. How is your horse doing now? Is he still uncomfortable?

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                  • Original Poster

                    #69
                    No he has been doing really well. The set of shoes that were put on yesterday he really seemed to move well in. They are rockered in the toe area. Trim wise how's it looking in your opinion? The farrier was working to get his toes in on both and heel down on the right.

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                    • #70
                      Where are before photos? The feet are currently a total mess-I would like to see if there has been any change at all.

                      Edited-I just saw the photos from August and to be honest I don't see any improvement and things actually look worse.

                      Looks like yet another metabolic issue.

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                      • Original Poster

                        #71
                        Originally posted by LMH View Post
                        Where are before photos? The feet are currently a total mess-I would like to see if there has been any change at all.

                        Edited-I just saw the photos from August and to be honest I don't see any improvement and things actually look worse.

                        Looks like yet another metabolic issue.
                        Yes there are pics from August, October, and November as well as corresponding x-rays.

                        Can you explain what looks worse?

                        I was hoping this trim would be more inline with what had been recommended. Lower heel on the right front, bring toes in etc.

                        We definitely suspect metabolic and have made diet changes.

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                        • #72
                          Take the earlier photos and put them next to the current ones. They may have improved but certainly not enough to be impressive.

                          Just look at the photos side by side and it should be obvious.

                          As I said in another thread (quite unpopularly I might add so be prepared for lots of thumbs down are arguments on what I am going to say)...you have a metabolic issue here so no matter how bad or good your farrier is, he is swimming upstream until you stabilize the metabolism.

                          My observations have proven to me that high low feet are simply a metabolism issue (laminitis/founder) that presents itself as high low because of the crookedness of the horse.

                          http://www.equinestudies.org/lessons..._2008_pdf1.pdf

                          I linked that on another thread-it explains mismatched feet...they happen when the horse has a crookedness or lean...all horses do to some extent....it can be worse from genetics or injury.

                          So the lean/crookedness gives him a certain posture-then you add in a metabolic insult (quite often green growing grass) and his feet crash-the back foot nose dives and the front foot loses heel height and runs forward.

                          What is the horse eating now? Including grain and pasture and hay.

                          You end up with what you have in your horse.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #73
                            Originally posted by LMH View Post
                            Take the earlier photos and put them next to the current ones. They may have improved but certainly not enough to be impressive.

                            Just look at the photos side by side and it should be obvious.

                            As I said in another thread (quite unpopularly I might add so be prepared for lots of thumbs down are arguments on what I am going to say)...you have a metabolic issue here so no matter how bad or good your farrier is, he is swimming upstream until you stabilize the metabolism.

                            My observations have proven to me that high low feet are simply a metabolism issue (laminitis/founder) that presents itself as high low because of the crookedness of the horse.

                            http://www.equinestudies.org/lessons..._2008_pdf1.pdf

                            I linked that on another thread-it explains mismatched feet...they happen when the horse has a crookedness or lean...all horses do to some extent....it can be worse from genetics or injury.

                            So the lean/crookedness gives him a certain posture-then you add in a metabolic insult (quite often green growing grass) and his feet crash-the back foot nose dives and the front foot loses heel height and runs forward.

                            What is the horse eating now? Including grain and pasture and hay.

                            You end up with what you have in your horse.
                            No I agree there isn't a huge difference from August till now. I know one major struggle that has been pointed out by both vet and farrier is that his feet are growing VERY slowly and he has always been like that to extent. Not sure if this makes a difference or not.

                            However, is the trim at least moving in the right direction?

                            Diet wise he is on soaked costal, no grass, and a small amount of molasses free beet pulp with supplements. We are getting our hay analyzed then going to go from there.

                            Insulin and thyroid were normal and yesterday we pulled more bloodwork to test leptin and ACTH.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              It sounds like you are going in the right direction with his diet and bloodwork.

                              I have also personally found a connection with slow growth and metabolism issues-even worse when the horse can't be in work.

                              Hopefully things will stabilize when you get that part in order.

                              Honestly I can't say anything about the trim or shoeing job...there is just no improvement worth noting (that I can see)-HOWEVER I would not be so fast to pull the trigger on the farrier.

                              As I said, he can only do so much when the horse is metabolically unstable.

                              What supplements, by the way?

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #75
                                No I agree there is only so much that can be done. I just knew there were major concerns about the trim in September and October being too long in the toes and too high in the heel on the right front for a horse that was being treated for founder.

                                My main concern is to make sure we aren't going the wrong way in the trim/shoes.

                                At the moment he gets farriers formula, Vitamin E, Iodized Salt, Magnesium, and Flax. This is temporary until we get the results back on the hay and can balance everything.

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Hopefully you will get some responses from the farriers.

                                  Best of luck getting it sorted out-I know it can be incredibly frustrating.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #77
                                    Originally posted by LMH View Post
                                    Hopefully you will get some responses from the farriers.

                                    Best of luck getting it sorted out-I know it can be incredibly frustrating.
                                    It definitely has been frustrating. I feel like I'm always playing catch up on being knowledgable about his feet.

                                    I appreciate all feedback though!

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