• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Stifle Injury?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Stifle Injury?

    Long story but I've got a horse with a totally shot stifle... I am 100% sure it is an old injury that has been re-injured and/or aggravated. She has always been NQR since I got her in March, but through a series of unfortunate events is now very, very lame.

    What are the chances of a complete recovery and/or coming sound for light work with a light rider?

    My vet and farrier are working together on this and we have a plan of attack to attempt to get her back to "serviceably sound," but guess I just wanted some anecdotal stories. I'm not feeling particularly hopeful at the moment, as I know it is an old injury, and I suspect it is a chronic problem that we will always be dealing with in varying degrees. Right now she's not even pasture sound. Sigh. I'd be happy just to get her to that point eventually.
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

  • #2
    Depends on the injury. Vague and of no help, I know.

    My old TB popped of a trailer lame at a show. Few days went by, no better. Took him for an exam, ended up he had a chip, albeit an old one. Figured he raced with it too. Ended up injecting him - vet said he aggrivated the stifle and because of the chip, it kept being irritated, instead of quieting down like in a normal joint.

    That was 7 years ago - horse was 13 - is now 20 and still going strong. He returned to doing the 3' hunters with me and his next owner, and is now teaching a younger girl the ropes at 2'6".

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Whew that makes me feel better.

      I knew she had an injury to the LH prior to me getting her, but did not know specifics because they were not disclosed to me.

      She is better when stalled 90% of the time and then worked lightly. Regular turnout seems to leave her completely crippled.

      Stifles are one thing I don't have a ton of experience with, except for stife-ly EPSM types. Good to know your horse came back and lived a relatively useful life. She is a young horse at 7 and it'd be a shame for her to not even be sound enough for turnout!!
      We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

      Comment


      • #4
        When I started riding my now pony mare, she was dead lame. So lame that I felt like a total a$$ for doing anything with her but I decided to give it a shot. Lots of walking up hill and long lining around the farm helped tighten everything up around the stifle. Gradual progression to light trotting work up hills and straight lines only then being able to trot around for 20 mins at a time and pole work leading to introducing the canter, low fences, and then we were up to 2'6. I have switched to dressage and thats helped even more to keep her in shape and sound. 3.5 years later and is about 90% sound. She gets sore in deep footing, steep downhills, slips out behind if its wet footing, etc. The vet thinks she did a split over a jump and caused her stifle injury. I couldnt get any info out of her previous owner. I have her on MSM and corta-flex.

        I think you just have to do lots and lots of rehab type of stuff once she is comfortable walking. Then, its a constant battle to keep up moving and the exercise. For example, I gave my mare 2 weeks off for my wedding and honeymoon. She was lame-ish and sore for me for at least two weeks after even though she is on 24/7 turnout.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by FlashGordon View Post

          She is better when stalled 90% of the time and then worked lightly. Regular turnout seems to leave her completely crippled.
          She may not be ready for this yet, but 24/7 turnout is the way to go for stifles.

          Comment


          • #6
            Have you ultrasounded? What exactly is wrong?

            My vet LOVES IRAP for stifle stuff and has had excellent results with it, even in "really ugly" stifles.

            Comment


            • #7
              My 32 yr old was originally retired due to what turned up to be an arthritic stifle, possibly torn meniscus. But at the time when it happened I didn't have a vet that diagnosed stifle. Basically everything else was diagnosed except for stifle, and all of the treatments came with stall rest.

              I fell into a similar pattern as you, stall rest 90% of the time, and then he'd come out of the stall rested and sound/soundish, only to go gimpy again with turnout and/or light work.

              This went on for ages until I really felt it was stifle, read up on it and how stall rest is the worst possible thing, and so decided to try to work him through it. The first two months were really ugly, I would hand walk him my gimping horse every where, over hill and dale for hours, every day. He slowly became more reliably sound, so I would hop up bareback and just let him choose the direction (hill or flat) and speed. If he started to gimp, I'd slip off but keep walking him.

              I kept a diary and made sure I was out 6x a week to keep him moving. If life got in the way, he would be sore again. This went on for about 2 years.

              Finally even the overnight stalling was too much for him. I ended up moving him to the other end of my state where rough boarding is common, there are less mountains and more hills, and the footing is less rocky. Within 6 months of him living out 24/7 he was sound enough for light competitive riding for almost 2 years. Another accident banged up his other leg and that is was ultimately retired him. He's been pasture sound for over ten years now as long as I keep him moving. I purposely have him set up in a paddock paradise type arrangement as even extended periods of loafing in a shed is detrimental to him.

              I wouldn't jump to any conclusions until you get a diagnosis of course, but agree one zillion %, 24/7 out is usually best for stifles.
              Being terrible at something is the first step to being truly great at it. Struggle is the evidence of progress.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Well, I feel better reading these stories. She's so freaking lame right now it is just like YIKES.

                Simkie, I am not even sure what happened. I know her LH has always been wonky but not to this degree.

                In July there was some crazy incident at the barn where a bunch of horses got loose, supposedly some were galloping on the road, we never got a real story (or, the story kept changing.) She was lame on the RF, which was hot and swollen. She had a grab injury to the RF heel. She looked just mildly off behind. The swelling went down in the RF, the vet said not to worry too much, rest, cold horse, blah blah.

                I moved her to a new barn. She looked sound. I let her be turned out, and started working her lightly. She promptly went lame. I couldn't tell *where* though. I took her off work again. Then back on work. Lame again, this time worse.

                She has not been ultrasounded yet-- it has only just become apparent that the stifle is the issue, I thought it was a sore SI due to compensating from the RF. Over the last week she's gone from wonky to Really Lame. She's on stall rest and bute for a week, then the farrier wants to try some corrective shoeing, and then we will go further with more diagnostics.

                Good thing she is the sweetest mare ever.... I adore her.
                We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

                Comment


                • #9
                  FG, definitely ultrasound the stifle. It's cheap, as these horse vet things go, and it will provide a wealth of information about the meniscus, the joint capsule and the ligaments that hold the joint together. You'll also get a look at bony changes, too. If your lovely mare has blown the joint capsule or torn the mensicus, you'll want to know that now, rather than later, so you can rehab her correctly.

                  My vet showed me an ultrasound of a totally blown stifle--torn meniscus, ruptured joint capsule, torn ligaments....seriously, it looked like a bomb had gone off in the knee--and that horse came sound enough to event at training with very careful rehab and IRAP.

                  I also have a very interesting article about stifle injury that I would be happy to forward, if you would PM me your email

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Best of luck to you and your mare. I hope you get things sorted out.
                    I'm hi-jacking your post a bit, but if you could tell me more about your experiences with "stife-ly EPSM types" I would appreciate it. No rush, concentrate on your mare. Jingles.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have a dressage mare that had a "wonky" stifle - ie she was lame on it. Ultrasound showed inflammation in the joint and no apparent soft tissue damage - with the qualification that vet can't see all the soft tissue on the ultrasound. Our agreed upon process was: Inject the stifle (HA/cortisone), stall rest, hand walking for a month, then checked for soundness; On to a month of riding every other day mostly walking then adding some trot, straight lines, then finally a bit of canter. She stayed sound. Drew blood for the IRAP treatments. Those done at 4 months, we are back to work and all is well. The plan is to do IRAP a year or so out, as maintenance.

                      Here's the catch - if the horse had not come sound, vet was recommending arthroscopic surgery to see what was really going on in there...and hopefully fix.

                      As I know nothing about your situation, but it sounds like more than just a inflammation, could well be that something is torn or otherwise going on. Ultrasound is not too pricey. BUT the follow up might be. IRAP is not a cheap process, neither is surgery obviously. So I would for sure get the ultrasound sooner rather than later and then you can decide how much you want to put into the mare. Soft tissue situation is also a long rehab to do it right.

                      Good luck...
                      We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have not had success with a stifle issue, but Shane's was a little different as he always had stifle issues-- it wasn't a single injury. I second, third, and fourth those who say you need to block and ultrasound to locate and diagnose the issue. Stifles are really, really problematic. I think stifles and neck/back are the two hardest areas to resolve. Jingles!
                        ~Veronica
                        "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                        http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Thanks for the information guys. Will definitely have it ultrasounded. Seems like we should do that NOW even though they wanted to try shoeing her first. I don't think shoeing's gonna make a huge difference, frankly, given how incredibly lame she is at the moment and just the lengthy history of this. I think there's more going on in there...

                          Simkie, will shoot you a PM.
                          We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My mare has some pretty bad arthritis in 1 stifle (I'm sure by now it's both, but I haven't had her re-checked). First vet told me I could inject but it probably wouldn't do anything. Since I had two others in training I just put her out to pasture and let her sit. After about 6 months, I noticed she completely stopped running with the herd and she looked miserable at anything more than a walk.

                            A second vet told me to put her on 1 gram of bute a day. I started and in about 3 days she was back to running with her pasture buddies. She's still only 90% sound, but i would say at her worst she was 75%, so it's an imprvement that I can't sneeze at. Realistically, I only give about 3/4 gram a day, but she's a large pony and it's enough for her. I've also not had a single digestive upset since she's been on it, but she's a very hardy type to begin with...

                            Good luck OP. Sticky stifles suck.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Age??

                              How old is your mare? I think a lot of the recovery has to do with the age of the horse at onset as well as the nature of the injury.

                              My 23 presented with right stifle hiked up to his belly - three legged horse. We did the ultrasound and originally diagnosed as a torn lateral pattelar. Did the stall rest - whole route....nothing. Did another & found a calcified bone chip - and that pretty much did it.

                              They said I would probably never ride him again. And I have to say, the thought of never looking down the neck; or seeing life through the ears of my partner for 16yrs, made me break down & cry. This was the horse that made my dream of Devon come true.....

                              Today, we go for great walks through the woods, some crow hops now & then...and the occasional canter on a good day. He wears trail boots & takes Adequan. I'll never sail over anything on him again, but he will always be my wings.
                              "A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority." Rick Warren

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Oh MoonWitch, sounds like your boy is a really special one.

                                This mare is only 7. She has not been 100% sound in the time I've had her. I knew when I took her on she had some issues, but thought they would be manageable, and/or she'd be serviceably sound to hack a few days a week.

                                She was doing well until the incident in July, and she has not been anywhere near right since then.
                                We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Take an xray along with the ultra sound. Ok here's a long story....


                                  In the late 90's, maybe 2000, my grey guy had a series of unrelated events. He got cast twice during this period, and he took out a fence line with his hind end doing a gallop/spin/buck/kickout move. In 2001 or 2002 his left stifle began to give out while cantering, like the leg would just fall out from under him.

                                  He was in work seven days a week, in great shape. As arthritis had already begun to set in and he had been getting multiple joints injected already, I decided to not pursue the stifle and retired him.


                                  This spring, 11 years after being retired, we had to xray that stifle and his gaskin to rule out a fracture (bad lymphangitis- he made it ) Low and behold, there was a huge divet/ plateau on the condylar of the stifle. What it looked like (according to my vet) was an OCD lesion that had dissolved. What we think happened is that he caused himself a cyst there due to trauma ( cast, the fence) and when it dissolved, lame horse.

                                  Now not saying we could have done anything about it at the time, this was pre IRAP era, but I would want to know my options now

                                  Good luck, sorry for the novel.
                                  Unrepentant carb eater

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Yes, I would also do rads as well, maybe even before the ultrasound. We had one that blocked out in the stifle , turns out she had a huge cyst!
                                    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
                                    carolprudm

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Mine was diagnosed with OCD in the stifle at 6. From the x rays, it was obvious they had been there for a long time so who knows what suddenly caused the lameness...he had been sound for a year and a half that I had him prior to finding them.

                                      Good luck with your horse!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by FlashGordon View Post
                                        Thanks for the information guys. Will definitely have it ultrasounded. Seems like we should do that NOW even though they wanted to try shoeing her first. I don't think shoeing's gonna make a huge difference, frankly, given how incredibly lame she is at the moment and just the lengthy history of this. I think there's more going on in there...
                                        I wish ultrasound was common back when my guy injured his, I would have done it. Good for you that you can.

                                        Shoeing made a tremendous difference in my stifle horse, and now that he is barefoot his trim does too. Dramatically rolling his toes on the hinds works best for him.

                                        My guy was bad enough at one point he was practically non weight bearing. Dramatic lameness, and equally dramatic swings to apparent soundness, isn't completely out of the norm imhe.
                                        Being terrible at something is the first step to being truly great at it. Struggle is the evidence of progress.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X