• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

What to do when synovial fluid is gone?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What to do when synovial fluid is gone?

    Hi all,

    My horse is a twenty year old gelding who was retired 2-3 years ago (mostly) due to arthritic ankles.

    Last Monday he became very sore, and we thought perhaps it was an abscess. He had been walking a bit foot-sore a few days earlier but (as mentioned) he hasn't been sound-sound for years. The vet came out and agreed that perhaps it was an abscess (although the horse did not react to the hoof tester) and we poulticed it. The vet also mentioned that perhaps it was his ankles bugging him but we were crossing our fingers for an abscess.

    In the past, we have injected this horse with hyaluronic acid and two out of the three times he had an allergic reaction - his ankles swelled up and for the next month he was very, very sore. As a result, we won't be giving him any more HA injections.

    On Saturday, we noticed some oozing around his coronet/ankle on the foot that we had poulticed. We were hoping this was the abscess bursting, however the oozing wasn't really consistent with a draining abscess - and he wasn't getting any sounder.

    On Sunday, he was still very lame in the front end but now was moving strange in his hind end. He also seemed to have trouble moving in a straight line when walking, which was worrisome. We thought perhaps it was a nuerological problem and immediately called the vet out.

    The vet did some tests (having the horse walk in tight circles, mainly), and determined it was not a neurological problem and was due to the pain in his right ankle. The vet did xrays on the spot and they showed that the horse no longer has synovial fluid in his right ankle. We're talking bone on bone.

    As a side note: The oozing/rain rot-looking spot is likely from a lot of heat in his ankle

    For the next week, we are trying him on (I believe it's called) Polyglycan (it's generally used for dogs with hip dysplasia, but the vet has had some pain relief success with horses who have foundered). After that, if there isn't much improvement... I guess a big decision needs to be made

    I'm just curious to know if anyone has any treatment ideas to keep this boy comfortable as long as possible, or what your experiences have been.

  • #2
    IRAP, maybe? It is very effective at reducing inflammation within the joint, and he should not react to it, as it is derived from his own blood. It is pretty costly.

    Alternatively, you could use some steroid in the joint. Much cheaper than IRAP and should at least provide some short-term pain relief.

    Although, 20 years old, hasn't been sound in a couple years and is now acutely painful and bone on bone? I'm afraid I would be seriously considering putting him down before it gets cold

    Comment


    • #3
      The best thing you can do is infiltrate with eather steroids or PRP's, which are more expensive but also have a higher success rate and last longer than steroids.

      Anything you may give orally or IM will only prevent an issue from getting worse, it won't help with an already arthritic horse.

      Jingles for your boy
      www.facebook.com/lusitanos4sale

      Comment


      • #4
        Not sure I buy the oozing from inflammation but in either case I would go to pentosan and a course of bute or previcox.
        McDowell Racing Stables

        Home Away From Home

        Comment


        • #5
          I'd try some combination of Pentosan, Legend, Previcox and Steroid-only injections in the joint. Sadly, none are likely to be long-term solutions.

          I also don't buy that the rain rot/oozing is from heat. I'd be looking at/treating that as if it wasn't.

          I know pasterns can be fused, but I don't believe that would work on a fetlock.

          Comment


          • #6
            My gut feeling is you are dealing with cellulitis and the bone on bone is secondary.
            McDowell Racing Stables

            Home Away From Home

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kickyjz View Post
              The vet did xrays on the spot and they showed that the horse no longer has synovial fluid in his right ankle. We're talking bone on bone.
              Sigh. You can't tell that from radiographs. You can tell that the joint space has closed significantly (the "bone on bone" you mentioned), but synovial fluid isn't radiopaque. Just like cartilage isn't radiopaque either. So the horse has severe osteoarthritis in the joint, I assume based on your description? Are there large osteophytes (bone spurs) present as well? All classic radiographic evidence of OA?

              If that's the case, then there isn't much you can do. In humans, when OA gets to that advanced stage, a total joint replacement is performed. Obviously you can't do that in a horse. You can't replace the synovial fluid or the cartilage lost, so the only option is palliative care until the horse tell you it's time to give up.

              Comment


              • #8
                “A sticky or squeaking hinge can be “cured” with a drop of oil, so it makes sense that a hinge joint, like the knee, would also benefit from a little lubrication. At least that’s the premise behind one new form of treatment for arthritis of the knee.

                The procedure, called viscosupplementation or synovial fluid replacement injects a preparation of hyaluronic acid into the knee joint. Hyaluronic acid is a naturally occurring substance found in the synovial (joint) fluid. It acts as a lubricant to enable bones to move smoothly over each other and as a shock absorber for joint loads”

                Obtaining Synovial Fluid Replacement.

                Synovial fluid replacement is a prescription only product administered by a qualified doctor. Many hospital doctors perform this procedure as well as General Practitioners. The injection procedure is covered by the VHI, BUPA and VIVAS and the product is on the General Medical Scheme (GMS) and the Drugs Payment Scheme.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by abbasi View Post
                  “A sticky or squeaking hinge can be “cured” with a drop of oil, so it makes sense that a hinge joint, like the knee, would also benefit from a little lubrication. At least that’s the premise behind one new form of treatment for arthritis of the knee.

                  The procedure, called viscosupplementation or synovial fluid replacement injects a preparation of hyaluronic acid into the knee joint. Hyaluronic acid is a naturally occurring substance found in the synovial (joint) fluid. It acts as a lubricant to enable bones to move smoothly over each other and as a shock absorber for joint loads”

                  Obtaining Synovial Fluid Replacement.

                  Synovial fluid replacement is a prescription only product administered by a qualified doctor. Many hospital doctors perform this procedure as well as General Practitioners. The injection procedure is covered by the VHI, BUPA and VIVAS and the product is on the General Medical Scheme (GMS) and the Drugs Payment Scheme.


                  Yeah, no. A swing and a miss in this case. And NO, simple supplementation does NOT do what is claimed. Plenty of clinical studies over the past 10 years show that.

                  As morganpony said, the joint is gone. Period. There is no making new cartilage, there is no synovial supplementation when the synovium is gone.

                  The only option is ankyosis (fusion) of the joint. It can be done surgically. Sure, crank on IRAP and 'roids to make the bone fuse. But the function will continue to diminish, regardless.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Thanks for your replies everyone, it's such a crappy situation to be in.
                    Ugh, horses.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Coffin joint or pastern? If it was the pastern wonder if a chemical fusion could be considered. You can try injections into the joint, if you can still get a needle in there.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X