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4 Month Weanling Started Biting and Kicking

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  • #41
    I am glad you are taking him back too. Hopefully they will accept your terms? Maybe they will wise up and use the $800 to get an older gelding suitable for young kids to ride and be around and to babysit the weanlings.


    • #42
      Glad you are getting him back. Consider treating for ulcers, as the little guy surely has been stressed.


      • #43
        Haven't read the whole thread, but I have two questions:

        1 - How old are the other two colts?

        2 - Why a sand paddock?


        • #44
          I just want to throw a few things in here.

          First off, I don't believe 4 months is "way too young" to wean a foal. It's not unusual for foals to be weaned as young as 3 months if their dam is struggling to keep up with them nutritionally. It's not ideal, but many foals are weaned between 3 and 6 months of age and do just fine. So long as they have another horse around to help teach them manners there's generally no harm done.

          I don't like that the foal was "diagnosed with worms" by looking at him. By looking at him do you mean a fecal? Or just the fact that he had a potbelly? Because yes, a potbelly can means worms or it could be an awkward stage the foal is going through or he could have a "hay belly". There are a number of reasons why the foal could look bloated.

          In addition, elevated fibrinogen doesn't tell you he's got parasites. Elevated fibrinogen is frequently due to inflammation - which could mean anything from parasitic irritation to salmonella(yikes!). Given that it's a young foal with diarrhea, and it's been dewormed multiple times I would NOT be inclined to think this foal has a worm burden. I would be more inclined to believe it potentially has an infectious disease and would be wanting to actively work that up.

          Yes, there is some indication that some worms are becoming resistant to ivermectin. However, it's not terribly common yet and assuming he's had several different types of dewormers it's probably a pretty safe bet that they've been taken care of. I'd be more concerned if he was 4 months and had never been dewormed.

          It is possible that his diarrhea is due to stress, as well as nutritional changes. Was he eating oats at your place? Or was that new when he got to his new home? Animals are really sensitive to changes in diets as it tends to upset their digestive flora.

          I think there's a lot more to ruleout here than just parasites or ulcers. Given his age and the fact that mom's colostral antibodies are waning and his own immune system is have to take over, there are lots of opportunities for him to pick something up that's causing disease. If he doesn't resolve soon, please get him a full workup as they can go downhill real quick!!

          Good luck, and let us know how it goes!


          • #45
            DownYonder - not trying to speak for OP, but this paragraph was in an earlier post, and may answer the sand question:

            This situation changed directions over the course of the summer. He was originally supposed to get only two colts which we all know is still much easier then three. He did a lot of good things. To ensure they had good footing - because he is a low area he brought in 20 semi loads of clay fill for his paddock and then several more semi-loads of sand to prevent mud. They have a nice treed area that is grass and he has built them a great shelter. He has made sure to have a good hay supply for winter and he is already looking ahead to send colts to trainer at the appropriate age. Oh yes, and he plans to geld all three this fall.

            I also took from this paragraph that they are all weanlings.
            We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........


            • Original Poster

              Talked to the guy for an hour today and it looks like I will be picking him up on Monday.
              Now back to banging my head against the brick wall....... He is going to get another colt..... I know it.... He was telling me how my colt was his daughter's present and now she is going to lose him. I told him make the other two colts everybody's to share and for a special present get her some riding lessons. Then I suggested if he must add another horse to get a nice old gelding.. Then he started telling me about a 3 year old APP that a coworker wants him to buy for 2500 with 60 days training and how some other people want him to start riding their horses.. I GIVE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!
              P.S. I will put him on ulcer meds when he comes home. Thanks to everybody who chimed in...


              • #47
                About the worms....As per my vet's advice...we NEVER give Ivermectin in the first 12 months!! It does not kill round worms and the foals become heavily infested despite the owner "thinking' the colts are dewormed!! Good luck with your colt.
                Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma


                • #48
                  You can't fix stupid but it sure can be hard watching Darwin at work. Glad he is coming home.
                  McDowell Racing Stables

                  Home Away From Home


                  • #49
                    I didn't read all the other posts, didn't have time so if I'm repeating anything, so sorry.
                    I wonder if he ate a belly full of sand the first night. I've seen this where youngsters just suddenly have a taste for the "new" stuff, this being sand.
                    I'd probably have his belly ultrasounded, do the manure/sand test, start ulcerguard asap, give him daily pro-prebiotics, use a ration balancer to reduce the amount of hard feed he needs, give as much free choice top quality timothy hay you can find along with alfalfa to buffer his tummy, and 24/7 turnout on grass. I'd also be sure he has really good quality loose minerals at all times.
                    Good luck & keep us posted.
                    Producing horses with gentle minds & brilliant movement!


                    • #50
                      My baby was weaned at 3 months. We took him from mama (with a bunch of other weanlings) for three days and then put them back with the mares. They don't nurse any more and they get the benefit of hanging with mom.

                      My baby also got the scoots when stressed until he was about 2. He seems to be over it now.

                      Anyway, good luck OP, glad you are going to get the baby and it sucks that they're going to get another one. Had a close call with my mare, almost sold her to a newb, but the lady wouldn't take any instruction and wanted to treat the horse like a dog. So I 'changed my mind' and kept the mare. I'm sure she went out and bought another horse.


                      • #51
                        This is a really terrible situation. I had a recently weaned foal develop ulcers and the very bad attitude and diarehea were the clues. My colt had begun attacking people with teeth and he didn't kick but he had his ears pinned all the time. He was treated for ulcers and recovered fine. He was on gastrogard to cure the ulcers. Four months is WAY too early to wean. This is becoming the trend in the horse world and I find it alarming and troubling. Babies will still nurse through 6 or 7 months old and in the wild they aren't weaned until the next foal the following year is coming due. I have friends who wean in the 2-4 month range and their babies are so upset and end up with health and behavioral issues. I would never do that to a foal.Sorry to be mean but I don't think it's a good thing. I also agree to not use ivermectin on a foal. I have always used safegard for babies. I also am glad to see you are bringing the colt home.


                        • #52
                          Just because you CAN wean early, doesn't mean it is best for the foal. I have had foals orphaned at 3 and 4 months of age who did fine. "IT" is not about the milk...it is about the nurturing and parental guidance for those extra months. Ask anyone who has raised an orphan foal what that youngster's social skills were like. There was a recent thread about people's willingness to buy/train/ride an orphan. Not many takers at all. The trauma of weaning, relocating and a funky tummy probably all contributed to the foal's foul mood. Hope he gets happy when he comes home.
                          Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma


                          • #53
                            Did you get the colt back? How is he doing?


                            • #54
                              I can partially answer - received a text from Memphis this morning.

                              The colt is back at her place and hasn't tried attacking anyone. I don't know anything else but have suggested she update the thread.

                              I'd like to know if he is still having any diarrhea.


                              • #55
                                I'm glad she got him home. Sounds like she can handle everything else.


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by crosscreeksh View Post
                                  About the worms....As per my vet's advice...we NEVER give Ivermectin in the first 12 months!! It does not kill round worms and the foals become heavily infested despite the owner "thinking' the colts are dewormed!! Good luck with your colt.
                                  I have always been taught to rotate - even with foals. There has been some resistance reported with round worms to Ivermectin, but that doesn't mean that you should NEVER give it to young horses.

                                  Foals less than one year of age- 8 week protocol: This schedule focuses on the large Ascarid roundworms that may cause intestinal obstructions in young horses.

                                  2 months of age- Pyrantel Pamoate
                                  4 months-Ivermectin
                                  6 months-Pyrantel Pamoate
                                  8 months- Fenbendazole (Panacur Power Pac)
                                  10 months-Ivermectin
                                  12 months-Pyrantel Pamoate
                                  APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman


                                  • #57
                                    If he does still have the runs, you might want to consider trying Bio-Sponge.

                                    Another consideration is disease and vaccinations. If he was vaccinated before he left, chances are they weren't effective as he was too young and still had some immunity from his mom. I would be considered about whether he picked up something either from the new environment or the other colts.
                                    Home of Sea Accounts xx
                                    AHS/HV, ATA, GOV, RPSI, JC, AQHA, APHA, APtHA
                                    "LIKE" www.facebook.com/SeaAccounts


                                    • #58
                                      How's that young fella doing now Memphis?
                                      where am I, what day is it, am I still having a good time?


                                      • Original Poster

                                        Hey there!! I meant to update yesterday but got busy with work. Hehehehe.

                                        Just a little background on when we picked him up on Monday. His temporary new owner was nervous around the colts. It was very obvious. He suggested that he give him his AB's before he left to save us the trouble but had a hard time catching him. The colt just kept walking away and eventually did stop and did flatten his ears and threatened to bite the guy. I am pretty sure even though this is a 5 month old colt he got the guys number really quick. I suggested that he let us help him and my boyfriend (city boy turned country boy) couldn't wait to show him how its done and caught him ASAP.

                                        We brought the colt back home on Monday and since almost two weeks had passed since he left had to relocate him with my old Arab gelding rather then the other foals and their moms. I gave it a little try under careful supervision but the other two dams were threatened by his return and there was no way I was allowing him further stress.
                                        We put him in a corral across the yard with the old guy and tested his behavior around food, especially oats. He moved out of the way for us, didn't pin his ears and was pretty laidback.
                                        My boyfriend caught him and gave him some of his AB's on Tuesday night without incident. On Wednesday night my barn helper was unable to catch him by herself and she did say he pinned his ears at her once. When I got home we caught him together. There were was no ear pinning or aggression - just a horse that didn't want to be caught. It did require some effort and removing the old but very smart gelding and tying him outside the paddock. He tried running past me and I put my hand on his nose and pushed him back and he stopped and gave in completely.
                                        Yesterday I had asked my barn helper to move them across the yard to a different paddock and again she had no success catching him even after moving the old guy. My boyfriend helped her this time and the colt allowed him to walk up and put the halter on without any resistance or escape attempts.
                                        He has been pooping nice solid balls since he arrived in the trailer.
                                        He has been super sweet at feeding time with me in the morning.

                                        I really think had this person truly understood the dynamics of foals, colts especially, he could have resolved this quite easily. It really shouldn't have been allowed to progress to this level in the first place. Unfortunately he expects them to respond to affection like dogs and we all know that is not the way the mind of a horse works.
                                        I am hoping he will not add any other young horses to compound things again. I am glad the colt is home.


                                        • #60
                                          Thanks for the happy update!
                                          What's wrong with you?? Your cheese done slid off its cracker?!?!