• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Treating for Ulcers with Cimetidine (Tagamet)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Treating for Ulcers with Cimetidine (Tagamet)

    (Not sure if I've spelled any of it correctly!)

    My retired hunter lives on it after a nasty attack that ended with a week at New Bolton.

    I recently got an OTTB who seems to have ulcer-like symptoms. Rather than spend the $ on scoping, since I have the stuff already, thought I'd just treat for ulcers and see if I see improvement.

    What kind of dosages do you use? I was told 5 morning and night.

  • #2
    This study: http://gastrogard.us.merial.com/pix/...metidineTB.pdf which compared cimetidine to omeprazole, used 20 mg/kg every 8 hours. That is just shy of 11 grams three times a day for a 1200 lbs horse.

    Comment


    • #3
      [QUOTE

      What kind of dosages do you use? I was told 5 morning and night.[/QUOTE]


      Thats the dosage my OTTB is on. Feed 5 approx. 10-15 minutes before feed time (when the stomach is the emptiest (LOL ~ mine eats ALL day), I was told to crush, and boy are they hard!, mix with a handful of grain, then feed your grain 10 min. later. I was told he would need to stay on it 3 months.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by LOVE*MY*NAGS View Post
        I was told to crush, and boy are they hard!
        A coffee grinder is the best investment ever.

        Comment


        • #5
          It my understanding that the only thing that heals ulcers is omeprazole.
          Only two emotions belong in the saddle: One is a sense of humor. The other is patience.

          Comment


          • #6
            I use 6 tablets for an average (16+ hand) horse per my vet. What I do is dissolve it in water and then either pour over feed (if horse will eat it) or use dose syringe.
            www.shawneeacres.net

            Comment


            • #7
              Anytime I see someone treating for ulcers I always recommend this website: http://www.lunatunesfreestyles.com/ulcers.htm It is so informative and tells you exactly what causes ulcers, how to heal them, and how to prevent them from coming back. I have had my guy on her system (tweaked to my own preferences) and he has been amazing! Good luck. Also, if you want to treat with Omeprazole instead (which I used and it was great) then a website to get horse doses for cheap is http://ponymeds.com/ HUGE savings compared to what you will pay anywhere else. They can treat ulcers for about $4 per day.

              Comment


              • #8
                As another poster stated, the only thing known to heal the ulcers is gastrogard. Expensive but worth it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  For those responding.....you may want to add what mg dose your tablets are as Cimetidine tablets come in 400mg and 800 mg tablets (they may come in other doses as well). So one person's 5 tablets may be a total of 400mg x 5= 2000 mg while another persons may be 800mg x 5= 4000mg.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FolsomBlues View Post
                    Anytime I see someone treating for ulcers I always recommend this website: http://www.lunatunesfreestyles.com/ulcers.htm It is so informative and tells you exactly what causes ulcers, how to heal them, and how to prevent them from coming back. I have had my guy on her system (tweaked to my own preferences) and he has been amazing! Good luck. Also, if you want to treat with Omeprazole instead (which I used and it was great) then a website to get horse doses for cheap is http://ponymeds.com/ HUGE savings compared to what you will pay anywhere else. They can treat ulcers for about $4 per day.
                    While I didn't use ponymeds, I did try the compounded omeprazole from myprecisionpharmacy.com. It did nada. Very disappointing.

                    The Merial products gastrogard and ulcergard contain a buffer to get the medication through the stomach environment. Omeprazole has to get into the bloodstream to do it's magic. Other cheaper formulations do not contain this buffer. It doesn't seem to matter for some horses--some horses seem to do very well on the ponymeds product or the product from myprecisionpharmacy.com--but some horses do not. Of course mine is in the "do not" group. Merial gets an awful lot of my money.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Try this:
                      www.ponymeds.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The Blue Bullet View Post
                        For those responding.....you may want to add what mg dose your tablets are as Cimetidine tablets come in 400mg and 800 mg tablets (they may come in other doses as well). So one person's 5 tablets may be a total of 400mg x 5= 2000 mg while another persons may be 800mg x 5= 4000mg.
                        (800 mg) 5 tabs, 2x day

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          I do have some tubes of gastroguard in case of emergency for my other horse. I just am unsure w/o scoping the new guy if I should use what I have on him or if I should just keep up with the cimetidine and see if I see an improvement.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Reading this thread as I just spoke with my vet about ulcers and he said that although the Cimetidine is the old fashion way....that YES, it does heal ulcers. He also recommended 2xs per day.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dalpal View Post
                              Reading this thread as I just spoke with my vet about ulcers and he said that although the Cimetidine is the old fashion way....that YES, it does heal ulcers. He also recommended 2xs per day.
                              All studies (with before and after endoscopy) to date show cimetidine and ranitidine (Zantac) do NOT heal ulcers in equines. If your vet has proof cimetidine heals ulcers, ask to see it. Both of the above drugs may relieve symptoms but unfortunately actual healing does not take place. Ditto all generic forms of omeprazole to date.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                When I one horse on bute long term, I asked my vet about ulcers and she had me using 4 cimetidine tablets of 800 mg, twice a day to help prevent ulcers. She never mentioned anything about feeding it before graining so I just added the ground up (coffee grinders are great! )tablets to his grain and he ate it. Course he was also on beet pulp so any supplements mixed well into the bp.
                                Sue

                                I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by bugsynskeeter View Post
                                  It my understanding that the only thing that heals ulcers is omeprazole.
                                  I just talked to the vet on the phone yesterday again about my horse's ulcers, and how often I should be giving omeprazole for maintenance. I asked specifically about Cimedidine because I saw it in SmartPak in 800mg. pills.

                                  He told me that Cimedidine has NEVER been shown to be effective in equines against ulcers. In fact, he said he knew of some horses that actually got worse on the drug instead of better.

                                  He said the ONLY way to truly cure ulcers and keep them cured is to amend your feeding program to allow the horse forage 24/7, eliminate or drastically reduce grain and sugars from the diet, and use 1/4 of a tube of Gastrogard before, during, and after any kind of trailering or other stressful event. Also to never pull the horse out of the field or stall and just ride without giving them at least 1 hour in a stall with good hay that they actually EAT first.

                                  The thing that makes me believe him is that this is at an equine specific hospital that specializes in all the difficult pathologies and cutting edge treatments, and not some podunk cow and cat vet.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by rcloisonne View Post
                                    All studies (with before and after endoscopy) to date show cimetidine and ranitidine (Zantac) do NOT heal ulcers in equines. If your vet has proof cimetidine heals ulcers, ask to see it. Both of the above drugs may relieve symptoms but unfortunately actual healing does not take place. Ditto all generic forms of omeprazole to date.
                                    That's exactly what they told me too - that the gastroscope has proven that omeprazole is the ONLY drug on the market that has ACTUALLY healed ulcers.

                                    As an aisde - I had severe heartburn last year and later pain between my shoulder blades and in my left shoulder. Also severe pain anytime my stomach was empty. The doctor told me it was likely ulcers, and put me on Nexium. At that time, he told me that Nexium was the ONLY drug shown to actually CURE the problem. The others just reduce acid and make you feel better, but the ulcerations never go away. I was on Nexium for a few months, and it really worked. I've taken Tagament and Zantac with no effect. The other proton pump inhibiter I've used is Protonix, which is a bit cheaper than Nexium and it works great too.

                                    So for my horse it will be feeding amendments and omeprazole until I am sure without doubt that the other drugs ARE effective. But at this time I'm just not sure of it.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by FolsomBlues View Post
                                      Anytime I see someone treating for ulcers I always recommend this website: http://www.lunatunesfreestyles.com/ulcers.htm It is so informative and tells you exactly what causes ulcers, how to heal them, and how to prevent them from coming back. I have had my guy on her system (tweaked to my own preferences) and he has been amazing! Good luck. Also, if you want to treat with Omeprazole instead (which I used and it was great) then a website to get horse doses for cheap is http://ponymeds.com/ HUGE savings compared to what you will pay anywhere else. They can treat ulcers for about $4 per day.
                                      The problem I have with that site is that she NEVER had her horse scoped for ulcers, she never knew for SURE if the horse did in fact have ulcers. And, she uses generic, compounded omeprazole shipped in bulk from china with no regulations, and no ecoteric coating to get it through the stomach and into the bloodstream. But she claims it healed her horse and everything is great now.

                                      That's excellent, BUT there is NO PROOF that her horse actually DID have ulcers in the first place, because the horse was never scoped. So recommending people to use an inferior drug because it "healed her horse's ulcers" is faulty because there's no proof the mare actually DID have ulcers.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I don't know about the rest of you, but this entire topic gives me a headache. I'm looking at all the ulcer threads....and I just do not believe my horse has ulcers...she has none of the symptoms other than she gets really gassy off of certain foods. She cannot have Legends, so she gets Progressive Senior....and any hay change...she gets really gassy.

                                        I hate the idea of spending 1000.00 for a treatment on a horse that I just do not think has ulcers. She isn't pissy, she isn't girthy, she isn't loosing weight, she has a good appetite and keeps weight easily.

                                        I think my mare just needs the equine equvilant to GAS X....anyone have thoughts on that one.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X