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Lyme Titer once treatment is finished??

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  • Lyme Titer once treatment is finished??

    My horse has now been treated with doxy for 3.5 months. He originally had the multiplex test which showed "chronic lyme"
    We just re-titered him before stopping treatment.

    His titer virtually did not change! Those that have dealt with Lyme......when you have retested what have the results been? I know once exposed they will always have a titer....but the same as when symptomatic?

    By week 7 he was much better and now is totally back to himself. The vets said "we treat" by symptoms after this....great.

    Please any experiences would be helpful about Titers post treatment :-(
    Adriane
    Happily retired but used to be:
    www.ParrotNutz.com

  • #2
    I was told to retest after 6 months??? Are there vastly differing opinions on this?

    Comment


    • #3
      I was told to wait at least 2 months after treatment ended to re-titer. I stopped the second treatment mid-June; won't bother to re-titer until late fall.
      JB-Infinity Farm
      www.infinitehorses.com

      Comment


      • #4
        I am just getting into this myself. My horse just had a titer come back moderately positive, and I did ask the vet prior to treatment what the normal course of action would be. She said that when they test positive, we treat, and ideally the titer will indeed go down after treatment. She did not give me an actual time frame for when we should be re-testing though. Interested to hear about this...
        The best is yet to come

        Comment


        • #5
          My boy was the same way. We treated for almost a year rechecked bloodwork a few times and after a consult with Cornell we now just treat when his symptoms return. We haven't rechecked his bloods in a while though almost 2 years.

          Comment


          • #6
            I was told and did see with my mare a decline in titer a few weeks after treatment. I tested again a couple of months later and again declined, but told it can take a year to go back to normal
            Epona Farm
            Irish Draughts and Irish Draught Sport horses

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            Comment


            • #7
              After six months, our pony was completely clear based on the titers.

              Comment


              • #8
                I cannot answer your question, but have one of my own.

                When humans have Lyme they have to take cyst busters. (The antibiotics provoke the spirochetes to go into cyst form).

                That is not done/necessary for horses?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thankfully I haven't had to deal with this myself. What I've heard during others' consults is that blood work results should be used secondary to symptoms when diagnosing and treating; and the results don't always mirror the presence or absence of symptoms... I'm not surprised that your gelding's symptoms are contradictory to his titer. I would echo what others have said: treat the symptoms.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by grayarabs View Post
                    I cannot answer your question, but have one of my own.

                    When humans have Lyme they have to take cyst busters. (The antibiotics provoke the spirochetes to go into cyst form).

                    That is not done/necessary for horses?
                    I know one vet who does this specifically. She is the only vet I have heard of that does this. She has had chronic lyme herself and Rocky Mountain spotted fever.

                    I don't know why other vets don't do this. I know several horses that have not gotten better with treatment. With one horse the lyme seemed to go into his brain and he had to be put down.

                    So many vets and people treat this like a little minor disease and it is not. I have had it too and know many others that have. It has ruined the health of many people I know and some have had to get out of riding because of it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by simc24 View Post
                      She said that when they test positive, we treat,
                      Around me, in Lyme Disease Central, my vet has given the opposite advice. She's said every single horse here will test positive, and so we DON'T treat based on the test. She only treats if there are symptoms.
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                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LookmaNohands View Post
                        I know one vet who does this specifically. She is the only vet I have heard of that does this. She has had chronic lyme herself and Rocky Mountain spotted fever.
                        Speak to me of this...I've never heard of a "cyst buster"...what is it? Would one only use a cyst buster in conjunction with antibiotics (since I imagine you'd be releasing the bacteria from the cysts...). Anyone know any more about this?
                        JB-Infinity Farm
                        www.infinitehorses.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I don't know about horses, but in people "cyst busters" are tindamax or flagyl, I believe. And yes, they are taken while antibiotics are also taken.
                          https://www.facebook.com/SugarMapleFarm
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                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by LookmaNohands View Post
                            I know one vet who does this specifically. She is the only vet I have heard of that does this. She has had chronic lyme herself and Rocky Mountain spotted fever.

                            I don't know why other vets don't do this. I know several horses that have not gotten better with treatment. With one horse the lyme seemed to go into his brain and he had to be put down.

                            So many vets and people treat this like a little minor disease and it is not. I have had it too and know many others that have. It has ruined the health of many people I know and some have had to get out of riding because of it.
                            I "think" my chiro/accupuncture vet is consulting with this vet on a regular basis. Not sure it is the same one but I know she is in Virginia and has had lyme herself...you can PM me her name and we can "see"
                            My horse will finish his doxy in about 10 days since it has been 3 months and he is feeling fine.....the idea of his symptoms coming back and having to treat him again is mindboggling as I also know many people who have had lyme ruin their life. I find my regular vets treat this very casually
                            Adriane
                            Happily retired but used to be:
                            www.ParrotNutz.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well, you can't diagnose (or that shouldn't be your only diagnostic tool) Lyme based on a titer alone, so I'm not sure how taking a titer now would tell you anything.

                              My horse had a titer of 20,000 and then a week later had the Cornell multiplex test done, and he did NOT have active Lyme, so there wasn't anything to treat. His symptoms ended up being due to ulcers.

                              I would think instead of following up with a titer, you would follow up with another multiplex at whatever amount of time after stopping doxy you are supposed to do it. A titer alone doesn't tell you anything on how the active infection is doing...

                              Hope your horse is all cleared up!
                              "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse..." ~Revelation 19:11

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by LDavis104 View Post
                                Well, you can't diagnose (or that shouldn't be your only diagnostic tool) Lyme based on a titer alone, so I'm not sure how taking a titer now would tell you anything.

                                My horse had a titer of 20,000 and then a week later had the Cornell multiplex test done, and he did NOT have active Lyme, so there wasn't anything to treat. His symptoms ended up being due to ulcers.

                                I would think instead of following up with a titer, you would follow up with another multiplex at whatever amount of time after stopping doxy you are supposed to do it. A titer alone doesn't tell you anything on how the active infection is doing...

                                Hope your horse is all cleared up!
                                originally did the mutiplex and retested with the multiplex...he was diagnosed at the start with the chronic from the test and upon retesting the numbers have not changed at all!
                                frustrating
                                Adriane
                                Happily retired but used to be:
                                www.ParrotNutz.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I can't speak to this specifically, but we need to remember what a titer test is.

                                  It is a measure of how many antibodies blood will create when exposed to the antigen. Anyone who is exposed, at any time in their life, via vaccine, active infection, past infection or latent case, should have a + titer. In a region where a disease in endemic, you might expect almost everyone to have a + titer, even if they never had an active case.

                                  A strong titer usually indicates recent exposure or infection, but not always. We are learning that the memory cells that make antibodies can last for decades (a lifetime, in some cases). I have a positive titer for mono b/c I had it in 1986. If I was recently re-exposed to the same strain, my cells would reactivate & I would have a high titer. It doesn't mean I have mono again. My mother has a high rabies titer from a vaccination in 1961. She has not been exposed to rabies any time since then.

                                  You might expect titer to decrease with treatment, but I doubt lack of a decrease is a definitive diagnostic tool. I know confirming Lyme is a contentious topic. Others should have more specific info.

                                  Good luck.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Parrotnutz View Post
                                    originally did the mutiplex and retested with the multiplex...he was diagnosed at the start with the chronic from the test and upon retesting the numbers have not changed at all!
                                    frustrating
                                    Ahh ok, you had mentioned that you did a titer as the follow up, so I thought you did a titer, not the multiplex.

                                    Not sure about the numbers on the multiplex not changing... did your vet or Cornell suggest why this might be? That seems strange, especially since those numbers you get back are so specific and not just a range.
                                    "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse..." ~Revelation 19:11

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by LDavis104 View Post
                                      Ahh ok, you had mentioned that you did a titer as the follow up, so I thought you did a titer, not the multiplex.

                                      Not sure about the numbers on the multiplex not changing... did your vet or Cornell suggest why this might be? That seems strange, especially since those numbers you get back are so specific and not just a range.
                                      Exactly! I would not think the numers at this point would show a "normal" range as per the multiplex BUT I would think it would show a reduction....My chiro, accupunture, holistic vet is going to call everybody she knows to research this. She used to work in a reular practice but prefers the above, plus teeth. The reguklar vets just blew it iff that he is "cured" because the numbers did not go up....sigh. I will keep you posted as there are many horses with this problem :-(
                                      I know the chiro vet, and she is a Vet, already has been consulting with a Vet in Virigina who herself had lyme and she said with the same numbers he is NOT out of the woods yet. Next Cornell. When I googled expert vets with Lyme...nothing came up except the article Cornell has that is not about After treatment.
                                      Adriane
                                      Happily retired but used to be:
                                      www.ParrotNutz.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Parrotnutz - I'd be interested to learn what you find out. My vet's plan seems very similar to your regular vet, in treating only the symptoms and said that the results probably won't change. I have not retested since our treatment was completed 3.5 months ago, largely because he is not symptomatic and because of conflicting information about whether the multiplex number would change and how long to wait before retesting to see if it will change. I do plan on retesting late fall which would put us about 6 months out. For now, I am paying very close attention watching for anything that might be considered a symptom of a dreaded relapse.

                                        Comment

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