• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

To shoe or not to shoe--opinions?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • To shoe or not to shoe--opinions?

    I've read so much about this. I know there are barefoot trimmers (Ohio barefoot trimmers recommendations?) that do different types of trims (mustang roll?) but I don't know much about them. Can any good farrier trim hooves to be barefoot? Under what conditions would it be ok for horse to be barefoot?

  • #2
    Of course any good farrier can trim for barefoot. Ask each one about it and how they would do your horse. All farriers I know have barefoot horses, horses with shoes on only the front, etc as well as shoes. Its the underedcuated non-farriers who might or might not know what to do specifically for your horse a well educated farrier of course knows how to trim for barefoot.

    Just make sure you don't exclude shoes - if your horse needs the protection, make him comfortable, don't keep him barefoot and uncomfortable for your sake. Its just an admonition I feel I need to say to people who question about their horses. Usually if you are questioning whether or not to shoe, and if your horse is uncomfortable barefoot, for goodness sake, make him comfortable with shoes, if that's what HE needs.
    My warmbloods have actually drunk mulled wine in the past. Not today though. A drunk warmblood is a surly warmblood. - WildandWickedWarmbloods

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Haleye5197 View Post
      I've read so much about this. I know there are barefoot trimmers (Ohio barefoot trimmers recommendations?) that do different types of trims (mustang roll?) but I don't know much about them. Can any good farrier trim hooves to be barefoot? Under what conditions would it be ok for horse to be barefoot?
      There's a great deal of "snake oil" sold by "barefoot trimmers."

      I'm not a farrier, but I've learned that you trim a horse to its anatomical correctness (foot angle equals pastern and shoulder) and ensure it's correctly balanced for that horse's conformation. This will permit most efficient movement (but may not win any ribbons in the show ring, as some disciplines require movement that is not all that efficient).

      The "ruffles and flourishes" of the "mustang roll" and other nonsense serves mostly as an excuse to give you a larger bill.

      A good farrier trims to anatomical correctness and, if required, adds a shoe to protect the trim. And here endeth the lesson.

      G.
      Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

      Comment


      • #4
        go with the Farrier and find out if your horse can go barefoot. some cannot. i have one of those.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
          There's a great deal of "snake oil" sold by "barefoot trimmers."

          I'm not a farrier, but I've learned that you trim a horse to its anatomical correctness (foot angle equals pastern and shoulder) and ensure it's correctly balanced for that horse's conformation. This will permit most efficient movement (but may not win any ribbons in the show ring, as some disciplines require movement that is not all that efficient).

          The "ruffles and flourishes" of the "mustang roll" and other nonsense serves mostly as an excuse to give you a larger bill.

          A good farrier trims to anatomical correctness and, if required, adds a shoe to protect the trim. And here endeth the lesson.

          G.
          "Mustang" roll is just a trendy term for what we used to call "rolling the toe" to "give him a good breakover." What's key is to remove any flares rather than letting them grow out as shoers want to make nailing easier. Then theyre'll be nothing to crack and split. Rounding all the edges is always good, in moderation of course. (R. & T., bite me!)

          When your horse first comes out of shoes, expect his feet to break up a bit (esp. in this weather!) until he's grown out the former nail holes; after that, you'll find a better quality of horn growing in, denser, as long as you keep up with your trimmings; 4 weeks is about right! Don't let him get long & flared and pointy-toed. Also, don't carve out the sole; let it grow naturally and don't pare it away.

          There is not a thing wrong with using EasyBoots or similar, especially to ease the transition or for rough rocky footing. I'm normally skeptical of topicals, but I can't deny that Durasole works, with less mess than the traditional Venice turpentine for a little extra help with toughening up.

          Remember, it takes a little bit of commitment in the beginning; say the first 3 months. If your horse has not adapted without soreness on forgiving footing after 3 trims, you may need to consider a return to shoes. Let your horse have the final word!

          Comment


          • #6
            I would say find the best farrier or hoof care expert you can in your area (check with local trainers you respect, ask your vet for references) and have THAT person look at YOUR horse then ask him/her your specific questions and point out whatever specific concerns you have. Then you'll get a reasonable answer. Here? It's like asking a bunch of rednecks which is better--Ford or Chevy?

            Hint: any practitioner who tries to tell you things that include ALWAYS or NEVER has an agenda that may or may not line up with what is best for your horse.
            Click here before you buy.

            Comment


            • #7
              A good farriier, whether they are nailing a shoe on at the end of the trim or not, would not leave flares. Period. A good trim is a good trim, whether you stop there or add shoes is totally dependent on the horse's needs.
              Amanda

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                I would say find the best farrier or hoof care expert you can in your area (check with local trainers you respect, ask your vet for references) and have THAT person look at YOUR horse then ask him/her your specific questions and point out whatever specific concerns you have. Then you'll get a reasonable answer. Here? It's like asking a bunch of rednecks which is better--Ford or Chevy?

                Hint: any practitioner who tries to tell you things that include ALWAYS or NEVER has an agenda that may or may not line up with what is best for your horse.

                That.
                A good hoof specialist is the one that will do what your horse needs and can do it well or refer you to someone that can if they can't.

                Try to stay away from any one that "only" does this or that to all horses following some strange ideas.

                "Only barefoot or else" is not fair to some horses, that have to suffer and limp along forever on that misguided idea, if they don't have the feet for it or the rider is not riding in a way that they can be barefoot.

                Here, our horses happen to be mostly barefoot, but our farrier will put shoes on one that is going to train and compete where shoes are necessary, as in reining or going to work cattle for many hours in the canyons.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Alright, I know shoes protect the horse's hooves. What exactly do they need protection from? Hard ground? Rocks? Lots of moving (riding?) Impact from landing after a jump?

                  I've heard that there will be an adjustment period. So, my horse is going to be walking around in pain for the next 3 months if we let her go barefoot? What if a horse is turned out part of the day, is ridden 3-4 times per week in an arena, and goes on trails? Would that be a case where most people would use shoes? What about fox hunters? Do they all use shoes? Dressage? Jumping?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I had a riding school with 30 horses where I gave lessons in an arena and took groups of trail riders out.
                    I did all my own shoeing, had learned from a master farrier first for long time.

                    We didn't have the modern keg steel shoes then and in our very sandy, abrasive soils, our shoes would start to wear thin in five to most six weeks of hard use.

                    Some times, if a horse had grown longer feet, I would take the shoe off and use the horse for a couple of days and then put some on again.
                    The hooves wore down in a hurry, could not have kept those horses from getting ouchy if I had not kept shoes on them.

                    Here now, we can go forever without shoes, because we ride on mostly turf and in the canyons, we can pick our ground so as not to be in rocks all the time but on soft grass or sandy trails, so we hardly ever shoe.
                    Unless we will be riding for days on end helping at the neighbors, where you have to do what you have to do and don't want to end afoot with a sore footed horse and that will be only on those few horses we would use there.

                    If you are jumping competitively in jumpers, where speed and quick turns in all kinds of ground matters, I think that with 99.9999% of horses, you want shoes to help you with traction.
                    Boots are not an appropriate substitute if you are doing other than just moving on easily forward.
                    I don't think they can take the torques, like a fixed shoe can.

                    If your horse is barefoot and ouchy and you put shoes and he sighs and moves on freely, you got your answer there.

                    As always, all that depends on a good trim/shoeing job, of course.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Haleye5197 View Post
                      Alright, I know shoes protect the horse's hooves. What exactly do they need protection from? Hard ground? Rocks? Lots of moving (riding?) Impact from landing after a jump?

                      I've heard that there will be an adjustment period. So, my horse is going to be walking around in pain for the next 3 months if we let her go barefoot? What if a horse is turned out part of the day, is ridden 3-4 times per week in an arena, and goes on trails? Would that be a case where most people would use shoes? What about fox hunters? Do they all use shoes? Dressage? Jumping?
                      Shoes protect the foot from wear. It takes about 9 months to grow out a foot. How much is that per day? How much does the horse wear per day? These questions are not rhetorical; their answers are quite important.

                      How far does a lesson horse travel in a 45 min. lesson? If you assume 15 min. of warmup and 10 min. of cool down you're looking at about 7 miles (more or less). Throw in a bit of hacking and you're 10 miles plus. Each and every lesson.

                      So the issue is what this will mean to the horse. It means that the feet will wear. Will growth equal wear? If so, what are the consequences of that? If not, what are the consequences of that? Answer these non-rhetorical questions and you have your answer(s).

                      G.
                      Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Haleye5197 View Post
                        Alright, I know shoes protect the horse's hooves. What exactly do they need protection from? Hard ground? Rocks? Lots of moving (riding?) Impact from landing after a jump?
                        My daughter's gelding needs shoes to protect from excessive wear. He tends to drag his hind toes. Ridden 5 days a week he can wear right through the wall into the white line in nobody's business.

                        [/QUOTE]I've heard that there will be an adjustment period. So, my horse is going to be walking around in pain for the next 3 months if we let her go barefoot? What if a horse is turned out part of the day, is ridden 3-4 times per week in an arena, and goes on trails? Would that be a case where most people would use shoes? What about fox hunters? Do they all use shoes? Dressage? Jumping?[/QUOTE]

                        I would guess that the majority of serious riders, regardless of discipline, shoe their horses. There are those, however, that don't. I do not think a horse needs to walk around in pain for 3 months or longer in order to adjust to barefoot. A hoof trim should never result pain. That said I think they are referring to the growth process needed to develop concavity of the sole. Many horses that have been shod for years have a flat sole. A natural unshod hoof is slightly concave. This lifts the sole up off rocks and keeps direct pressure off the bottom of the coffin bone. Even in this case the horse would not be sore on soft forgiving ground like a grass pasture or a ring with good footing. If a horse has flat soles and must go on hard or rocky ground, boots can be used to keep the horse comfortable until the hoof remodels. There is no need for a horse to suffer during this phase.

                        I think that the barefoot experts make a great deal of sense and prefer to keep my horses barefoot if possible. Our domestic horses, however, are not genetically selected for strong well formed hooves. Therefore, many of our horses need shoes. I have a very well educated, thoughtful farrier who I trust to evaluate each horse individually based on their particular foot and what they will be doing.
                        "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have two barefoot and two With fronts only. It all depends on your horse. My dressage horse has low heels we are tring to correct and no concavity in the hoof we are correcting also from years of not so good shoeing. A barn hand that knew had to nail on a shoe pretty much. He is shoed in front but as he advances in dressage work and the more push from behind he may have to have back shoes one day. The other is just a trail horse that rides once in a while but I like to have shoes in my trail horses because of rocks and terrain. Even a tough soled horse can have an ouch step if on rocky rough trails so it's just my preference. The two barefoots are retired and hang in the pasture. One had shoes when in work and the pony never did but he was my daughters and wasn't really ask to do much outside an arena and never needed them. It all depends on your horse and yes if you pull shoes he maybe tender footed for a bit. Think about ourselves. Someone that never goes outside barefoot is going to be more sensitive than someone that runs around barefoot all the time. Some horses just can't go barefoot for many reasons. You need a good farrier to help you with this. I don't like the natural trimmers because they are soooo against shoes and I have been approached by some at shows telling me they know what's best for my horse and thats being barefoot like in the wild. What these people don't get is these horses are not in the wild. They don't have the natural terrain to naturally wear their hooves and with breedings and lines these horses are not like what is in the wild. It's so different.
                          Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If the horse needs shoes, it gets shoes. If the horse doesn't need shoes, it goes barefoot.

                            The same farrier does both!!!
                            Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                            Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Our retired pasture horses and broodies are barefoot. All the others are shod, as are 99 percent of athletic performance horses (there are very good reasons for this!). I would also recommend getting the best performance farrier in your area and asking him/her what he/she thinks. If your horse doesn't have naturally hard, well shaped feet he will likely need shoes.
                              www.svhanoverians.com

                              "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X