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Could this be an ulcer?

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  • Could this be an ulcer?

    I'm so panicky right now... just came from the stables, my mare has had her 3rd colic in under 2 months.

    Now the vet wants to take her to the vet college to make an endoscopy to search for ulcers. We said yes, obviously, so she's going there this Wednesday. In the meanwhile we'll be giving her Gastrogard just in case.

    She hasn't had any other symptoms of ulcers except for the frequent colics.

    So I'm kind of hoping it is an ulcer so we can address the situation and treat her.... I'm really afraid she's just prone to colic.

    Does anyone have any helpful advice for this situation? Hate this...
    www.facebook.com/lusitanos4sale

  • #2
    My mare did have ulcers revealed by scope. I insisted on scoping her when she was constantly acting like she was mildly colicky. She was off feed & water also. I definitely think the scope is a good first step.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

    Comment


    • #3
      Hope your mare is having her endoscopy right now. Hope they find ulcers, that would be pretty straight- forward. Jingles!

      Now, not to be an alarmist, but my horse who had frequent colics, had ulcers secondary to his main problem. He has delayed gastric-emptying, which leads to gastric impactions. Even after a sixteen hour fast, during a time period in which he seemed normal, his stomach was still way full. I'll not bore you with all of my boy's details.

      So, Jingles, and do give us an up-date please.

      Comment


      • #4
        SCMSL - good luck with your mare. If they don't find stomach ulcers it could be hindgut ulcers or ovarian/reproductive pain.

        Leaf-what have you done to help your horses stomach emptying problem? My horse has stomach emptying issues due to scar tissue from a healed stomach abscess. Other than ulcergard I haven't heard many realistic suggestions for helping the problem.
        Member of the *OMG I loff my mare!* clique.

        Comment


        • #5
          Try not to panic!!! My filly coliced a few times last summer...vet said bowel impaction and that she may be prone to colic etc.

          Since that time.. it's been over a year and she hasn't had any problem at all.....

          So maybe it's a fluke....not ulcers but "bad" food.....or other circumstances that is creating the colic...... and after this passes things will be ok

          good luck

          Comment


          • #6
            besides colic are there any other symptoms? Horses that have ulcers can also be girthy, unwilling and sentive to grooming, blankets your leg ect. Mine had all of the symptoms above and we found ulcers when we scoped so we treated with 28 days of Gastrogard. Good luck, let us know howit goes!

            Comment


            • #7
              Jingles for your mare! I hope that the scope does just show ulcers and not chronic colic, that can be no fun.

              I've got a horse who colics all the time and it's no fun. We've been through one colic surgery and have had intestines flip a few times since then (it's been 18 months today since his colic surgery). Definitely a very stressful and scary thing, hopefully you can find a solution to the problem if it is chronic colic. A feed change and certain supplements have helped my guy immensely, but I know that there's still no guarantee that he'll always be fine.

              Comment


              • #8
                I suspect ulcers as well. another thing you can ask about is if there might be a chance of enteroliths/intestinal stones.

                they are caused by the horse ingesting an object like a pebble or sand or even an appleseed and it starts accumulating in size.

                What type of hay is she on? Enteroliths usually develop in horses in the western states who are mostly fed alfalfa. here is the first link of many on google. http://evrp.lsu.edu/healthtips/Enteroliths-Colic.htm



                another thing could be sand in the intestines/sand colic... if he/she gets turned out in a sand arena a lot or eats off of sandy ground it can accumulate in the intestineshey could also cause the symptoms you describe.

                just a couple more thoughts that you could ask while you're there to rule out any other causes.

                Good luck! if it is ulcers, fortunately they are VERY treatable. with proper management and horsekeeping,she should be good as new.

                I find the best thing for ulcers is what my signature suggests.
                *Member of the Quality Free-Choice Hay/Pasture Feeders Society* Member of the As Much Turnout as Possible Group* FEED by WEIGHT not VOLUME*

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Hey everybody!

                  First of all, thank you so much for your support.

                  She will be scoped tomorrow at 9am, and I too am hoping they find whats wrong with her.

                  As for other symptoms, I haven't had her for too long (its been around 2 1/2 months since we bought her) so I'm not sure whats normal for her yet. She is VERY picky with her food and doesn't have much of an appetite. I read this can also be due to ulcers. She has a bitchy personality when grooming (today loves you, tomorrow tries to kill you) but I think that might have more to do with her past then with her health... but there it is, you never know.

                  Leaf, how are you dealing with it? what do you do to help him?

                  gf and HoofHeartSoul, I will definitely ask the vet tomorrow to test for that also, thank you for those suggestions!

                  Unfortunately she is kept in a very unnatural way, almost never gets turnout (there are no pastures and the 3 paddocks are tinny and very overused, she can't even buck or be a horse, so there isn't any advantage in putting her there). I buy the feed myself to make sure she's eating what both the vet and I think is the best - Pavo, which is also fed in other major stables in Europe, including Schockemohle.

                  She has add lib hay to make up for not having any pasture and also a thing called Pavo Daily mixed with her grain (Pavo Condition) - check what these are at www.pavo.com

                  Other then that, we were trying to get her to eat beet pulp as it helps with digestions and wouldn't make her hot, but she just won't touch it (even if we top it with delicious stuff like carrots and apples and even molasses) - I'd also love some ideas as to what I can do about this!

                  She also gets fed electrolytes daily because its been really hot.

                  Hope everything turns out ok tomorrow. I will post as soon as we have some news.

                  Again, thank you so much for all the support
                  www.facebook.com/lusitanos4sale

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just wanted to say good luck tomorrow! Really hope it turns out that ulcers are the culprit. As a fellow mild recurrent colicky horse owner, I feel for you! There is really nothing worse in my opinion. Jingles for you and your mare

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SCMSL View Post
                      Hey everybody!

                      First of all, thank you so much for your support.

                      She will be scoped tomorrow at 9am, and I too am hoping they find whats wrong with her.

                      As for other symptoms, I haven't had her for too long (its been around 2 1/2 months since we bought her) so I'm not sure whats normal for her yet. She is VERY picky with her food and doesn't have much of an appetite. I read this can also be due to ulcers. She has a bitchy personality when grooming (today loves you, tomorrow tries to kill you) but I think that might have more to do with her past then with her health... but there it is, you never know. This was my mare to a T! She eventually went from being picky, to not eating at all. That's when we scoped her.
                      Leaf, how are you dealing with it? what do you do to help him?

                      gf and HoofHeartSoul, I will definitely ask the vet tomorrow to test for that also, thank you for those suggestions!

                      Unfortunately she is kept in a very unnatural way, almost never gets turnout (there are no pastures and the 3 paddocks are tinny and very overused, she can't even buck or be a horse, so there isn't any advantage in putting her there). I buy the feed myself to make sure she's eating what both the vet and I think is the best - Pavo, which is also fed in other major stables in Europe, including Schockemohle. If she does have ulcers, this could be a MAJOR part of the problem. My mare hates a stall, and even being turned out in a small paddock with hay would be much better than a stall or limited turnout. I would see if you can turn your mare out as much as possible, and make sure she has hay all the time (as I see you mentioned below)
                      She has add lib hay to make up for not having any pasture and also a thing called Pavo Daily mixed with her grain (Pavo Condition) - check what these are at www.pavo.com

                      Other then that, we were trying to get her to eat beet pulp as it helps with digestions and wouldn't make her hot, but she just won't touch it (even if we top it with delicious stuff like carrots and apples and even molasses) - I'd also love some ideas as to what I can do about this! When my mare's ulcers were treated/healed, her appetite came back. Feed low starch grain if you must feed grain. I like the keep is simple method: forage (grass or hay) and supplement with grain only if absolutely needed. My mare maintains on grass pasture in the summer, hay in the winter. Perhaps a ration balancer would be a good idea to provide her with the vitamins and minerals she needs without additional calories or starch from a grain.
                      She also gets fed electrolytes daily because its been really hot. If your mare has ulcers, electrolytes can further irritate them. I found a study on this, I can see if I can find it if you want. But this may be contributing to her discomfort if she does indeed have ulcers.

                      Hope everything turns out ok tomorrow. I will post as soon as we have some news.

                      Again, thank you so much for all the support
                      Hope you find out what's up with your mare! Always nice when its something definite and treatable!
                      "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        As far as electrolytes go, unless you're working her in the heat, or she's not drinking at all, or she's sweating a lot on her own, she should be able to maintain just fine without electrolytes. They are designed to replace essential salts that the horse loses due to sweating; if the horse isn't sweating and is drinking, I like to follow the keep it simple method again...no electrolytes
                        "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Just came back from the hospital at the college, she was scoped but will have to come back tomorrow to do it again. We kept her muzzled during the night but she still managed to eat some of her bed, so they couldn't see anything. She'll have to stay tied down all night long, poor girl.

                          I gave her the electrolytes because we have been keeping her muzzled and somehow she's very afraid of the water bucket, and she can't drink from the automatic waterer. So we give her the electrolytes, then walk her in hand and when we come back she's very thirsty and drinks. She is also very dehydrated, so I'm a bit scared about that too...

                          But in that case maybe we won't give them anymore...
                          www.facebook.com/lusitanos4sale

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SCMSL View Post
                            Just came back from the hospital at the college, she was scoped but will have to come back tomorrow to do it again. We kept her muzzled during the night but she still managed to eat some of her bed, so they couldn't see anything. She'll have to stay tied down all night long, poor girl.

                            I gave her the electrolytes because we have been keeping her muzzled and somehow she's very afraid of the water bucket, and she can't drink from the automatic waterer. So we give her the electrolytes, then walk her in hand and when we come back she's very thirsty and drinks. She is also very dehydrated, so I'm a bit scared about that too...

                            But in that case maybe we won't give them anymore...
                            Remove all of her shavings/bedding from her stall for the night, and use the muzzle too. I don't know what you mean by keeping her tied all night, but if you mean literally keeping her tied to keep her head up, it would be nicer to just remove her stall bedding.

                            Good luck!
                            "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse..." ~Revelation 19:11

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              not to sound mean or snide, but if she is dehydrated and can not or won't drink with her muzzle on I would not keep giving her electrolytes. that is just adding to her dehydration.

                              electrolytes are meant to replace what she has lot suring sweating( it is basically salt with other added minerals) so it will make her more thirsty like you have noticed

                              electrolytes should never be given daily unless the horse is sweating a lot everyday.

                              free choice loose salt is okay, as long as the horse can choose when or when it doesnt want the salt.

                              just a heads up. giving electrolytes to an already dehydrated horse is DANGEROUS.

                              keep us updated! hope all goes well!
                              *Member of the Quality Free-Choice Hay/Pasture Feeders Society* Member of the As Much Turnout as Possible Group* FEED by WEIGHT not VOLUME*

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Agree...strip her stall of everything but a water bucket.

                                And why is she muzzled daily? Or did you just muzzle her overnight to keep her from eating?

                                If she is muzzled and has limited forage intake, that could be adding to her tummy troubles, whether she has ulcers or not.

                                And stop the electrolytes, especially if she isn't drinking water free choice (which is sounds like she isn't if she is muzzled and not drinking, and only drinking when you remove it and walk her to the water source).
                                "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Definitely strip the stall completely. I also muzzled my gelding for a couple hours before he got scoped, even though his stall was stripped.

                                  I was also instructed to take away his water about an hour before we left for the clinic.

                                  Good luck.

                                  Sure sounds like ulcers to me.
                                  Charlie Brown (1994 bay TB X gelding)
                                  White Star (2004 grey TB gelding)

                                  Mystical Moment, 1977-2010.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Thank you for your input.

                                    She is being kept muzzled per vet order. At least until we get a diagnosis, she thinks its best to limit her food intake. She's just eating small amounts of wet hay and carrots.

                                    She hasn't been sweating too much, but she has had diarrhea so the vet recommended the electrolytes.

                                    Hope tomorrow we'll find out whats wrong with her and find her an adequate diet and treatment.
                                    www.facebook.com/lusitanos4sale

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Diarrhea may point to hind gut ulcers so ask about that no matter what the scope shows.

                                      Good luck! Hoping for a sure diagnoses...nothing is worse than not knowing!
                                      "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        More jingles and hopes for a diagnosis today!
                                        As to your, and gf's question about how I manage my gastrically impaired horse. I feed soaked feed, no hay, he's on short grass pasture 24-7. I excercise him just about every day to keep that motility going. He's been on Bethanechol for motility for seven months, but I'm weaning him off of that. He gets a pre-biotic/pro-biotic, and extra Vit. E. He's still on Ranitidine, until I have him 'scoped again I can't know if he still has ulcers. He also gets chinese herbs that increase motility. And we've been doing electro-accupuncture. It seems to have helped, I have high hopes for that.

                                        If you have nothing better to do, search on this forum for My First Post, Gastric Impaction, @Oct 13th. Also Belgians Gastric Impactions: Update, April 24th.

                                        Fellow CotHer, Fivehorses, has gone through this as well. She as ideas and advice too. I hope she chimes in here.

                                        Gf, feel free to PM me, you too OP. The unfortunate members of the Delayed Gastric Emptying Society need to compare notes.

                                        Again OP, hoping you get a diagnosis and plan of action today!

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