• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Whats the deal hair analysis? (Dr. Depaolo) Or what about saliva analysis?

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Whats the deal hair analysis? (Dr. Depaolo) Or what about saliva analysis?

    I saw this on Dr Depaolo's website: For $185 you can get your horses hair analyzed. http://www.depaoloequineconcepts.com..._analysis.aspx
    Uckele also offers hair analysis for $149.95 http://www.uckeleequine.com/page/equ...eral-analysis/

    Always only done through vet, vet sends to lab? Wait, then there is also saliva testing. This does not appear to be done through a vet, but through various individuals. I think the saliva testing can detect injuries and hoof imbalances. Really?

    Does anyone have experience with either, wondering who has done this, what lead you to wanting to analyze the hair or saliva, what were the results, how did you treat, and what was the final outcome?
    Last edited by Dutch Lovin' Dressage Rider; Jun. 5, 2012, 09:39 PM.

  • #2
    Save your money.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.


    • Original Poster

      I was just reading on another forum about it and that seems to be the consensus.


      • #4
        SALIVA analysis? What on earth can be gleaned from saliva? Do you mean DNA testing of some sort via harvesting epithelial cells from the cheek? Or does someone out there actually analyze saliva and make diagnoses thereby?

        Sounds even more bogus than hair analyis, to be honest.

        Click here before you buy.


        • #5
          The quackwatch boys are just about done.
          look up quackpotwatch.com
          Stephen Barrett is an idiot


          • #6
            Don't care for quackwatch? Fine. Try looking for actual evidence of efficacy and reproducibility of these tests on PubMed or Google Scholar. We'll wait. But we shall not hold our breaths.

            Not evidence, but a synthesis, admittedlly somewhat biased as the title of the
            blog should indicate.

            Is there "stuff" in saliva? Undoubtedly yes. Is it potentially useful as a diagnostic specimen? Possibly. Is there work being done in this direction? Some. Ready for mass-market and prime time? No, not at all. That is the thing with SO many treatments, tests, and remedies that are sold . . . skipping that whole, messy part in the middle between "hypothesis" and "profit taking".
            Click here before you buy.


            • #7
              Hair analysis? Saliva/epithelial cell analysis? My guess the reasoning is one of two things:
              1- Toxins/remedies- How about a full blood panel? Nothing there? Good. Nothing to treat. Keep the results to compare to when something really is going wrong.
              2- DNA- Unless you NEED to prove a heritage (that BWB fiasco earlier this spring, for example), does it really matter what's "under the hood"? I know my truck is big and blue and gets me (and the horses) from point A to point B. It does what I need it to do and I quite like it. Just like my mare. She's big and bay and does what I need her to do (mostly ) and I quite like her.

              I guess I need some more info on WHY you'd be doing these tests, Dutch.

              p.s. Forgive me for sounding pissy. I just reread my post and I don't mean to sound pissy. Sarcastic yes (as is my way), pissy no. I was just reading the LP thread over on Dressage and 7 has me in a crabby mood. Sorry 'bout that.
              Steppin Not Dragon "Bella"
              Top Shelf "Charlie"
              Check out the Military + Horses fb page!


              • Original Poster

                Updated original post now that I have more time, and added a few links where I saw the info earlier.


                • #9
                  In humans saliva testing is for hormones (I think), but I don't think it is supposed to be very accurate. The hair testing is supposed to tell trace levels of vitamins and minerals, I really don't know how reliable it is. I think it can be used as just another tool or method to get more information on what is really going on in your horse, no test really tells the whole story, but if you put them all together there might be something.


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dutch Lovin' Dressage Rider View Post
                    Updated original post now that I have more time, and added a few links where I saw the info earlier.
                    Ah! Okay... I get it now.

                    My response is "meh" to the whole hair analysis. Unless your horse is ill and you're desperate for an answer, I'd say stick with the basics and do a blood draw. Anything serious would show up, and you'd have a baseline if you decide to do blood draws yearly or bi-yearly.
                    Steppin Not Dragon "Bella"
                    Top Shelf "Charlie"
                    Check out the Military + Horses fb page!


                    • #11
                      Whenever one is contemplating a diagnostic test, the very best results are gotten when one very clearly has a question in mind that the test is required to answer. The more clear the question, and the more accurate the test is in answering that specific question, the better the answer is going to be.

                      The best and fanciest test out there is sometimes quite useless if the test is not able to answer the question at hand. Doing an MRI, for instance, although it can tell us a LOT about our inner workings, is completely the wrong test when we want to know if there's a strep throat.

                      What is the specific question you're wanting answered, OP? Is there no other way to answer it than this?
                      Click here before you buy.


                      • Original Poster

                        Thanks DW. The specifics of my curiosity is outline in my op.


                        • #13
                          I read the OP--are you thinking your horse is injured or has a hoof imbalance? That can't be diagnosed in some other fashion?

                          Or just general curiosity?

                          Uckele sells mineral analyses because they also sell . . . minerals.
                          Click here before you buy.


                          • #14
                            blood panels

                            The problem with depending on blood panels is that many of the items tested are kept within normal ranges by homeostasis. By the time the horse's levels are out of range it may be too late to save it. If you think you have a problem another avenue may help you determine if you do.

                            I do hair testing on horses but use body hair which is tissue and fetlock hair which is cuticle. Using both body hair and cuticle hair enables one to identify mineral interferences and imbalances.
                            Most hair testing labs use mane hair which is cuticle and it is not sufficient for diagnostic purposes. Interpretation of results is the key.

                            Susan Cook PhD in toxicology and water quality


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Get Sweating View Post
                              The problem with depending on blood panels is that many of the items tested are kept within normal ranges by homeostasis.
                              Ummm.....which would be indicative of a healthy body operating normally.


                              • #16
                                I do hair testing on horses but use body hair which is tissue and fetlock hair which is cuticle. Using both body hair and cuticle hair enables one to identify mineral interferences and imbalances.
                                Can you please elaborate? How are you defining "tissue", precisely WRT body hair? How are you defining "cuticle" and how is this relevant? Please define precisely a mineral interference and how this is identified. Be specific, if you can. I can follow the language. Please include citations indicating that hair mineral analysis (for things besides heavy metals) has been validated and shown to be reproducible and actually reflects what is going on in the living organism.
                                Last edited by deltawave; Jun. 23, 2012, 10:23 PM.
                                Click here before you buy.


                                • #17
                                  Wasn't there another toxicology PhD here named Susan selling some product or other a few months back?
                                  Click here before you buy.


                                  • #18
                                    Many, many, MANY years ago I did a tiny little study on hair analysis in horses. I collected samples from different sites on the same horse (about 5 different horses, all on the same day, etc) and sumbitted them for analysis. Used mane, fetlock and a few other places that woud be either "un-noticed" or "routinely" clipped. Talk about a scatter plot!!!! OMG!! Depending on where you sampled you could say anything you wanted about a particular horse's micro/macromineral status.

                                    Bottom lines:
                                    1) we don't know what normal values are for the normal micro/macro minerals
                                    2) we don't know why the values vary by body location
                                    3) we don't know which location we should use
                                    4) so we sure as heck have no idea how to interrupt the results!!