• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Saddle Fit - Rocking Cantle?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Saddle Fit - Rocking Cantle?

    What part of the saddle fit is incorrect when the cantle rocks (up and down and left and right when lunging at the trot)? I am questioning the fit of my saddle and this is one of my top problems.
    Handmade Cotton Fabric Dog Collars
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/DesignsByJinx

  • #2
    I always get the terminology wrong, but the panels (the big wide things that sit on their back) are probably too curved for the shape of the horse. Getting a saddle with gussets can help--they tend to fit flatter-backed horses better.
    Click here before you buy.

    Comment


    • #3
      If the saddle is girthed up tightly and the cantle is moving in a big way, you might have a big problem.

      How to tell? Post the trot in it. Reach one hand behind you and grab the cantle. If it's rocking up and down, the panels of the saddle are behaving like a vice-like rolling pin on your horse's back.

      Ouch! And, oh man, don't go there. IME, that will hurt a horse a lot in a little time.

      Usually this kind of problem is created by a tree that basically doesn't follow the shape of the horse's back and some panels that don't fit well enough to let the saddle "fake it" and stay still. You can try to feel around the panels (with saddle ungirthed on a naked horse) to see if you can feel gaps underneath the stirrup bars and center of the seat. Usually, that's where the problem is if the rest of it looks ok.
      The armchair saddler
      Politically Pro-Cat

      Comment


      • #4
        The tree. If it lifts up in the back, that means the saddle rocks once the horse moves. No amount of corrective flocking will fix that. Adding gussets can sorta help, but is usually more expensive than selling this one and buying something used that does fit.

        Comment


        • #5
          You do mean it's rocking coming *off* the horse's back, right? If so, what those above me have said.


          If it's staying put on your horse's back, congrats, you have a lovely back mover who is difficult to sit. (Ask me how I know that one.)
          Originally posted by Silverbridge
          If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by mvp View Post
            If the saddle is girthed up tightly and the cantle is moving in a big way, you might have a big problem.

            How to tell? Post the trot in it. Reach one hand behind you and grab the cantle. If it's rocking up and down, the panels of the saddle are behaving like a vice-like rolling pin on your horse's back.

            Ouch! And, oh man, don't go there. IME, that will hurt a horse a lot in a little time.

            Usually this kind of problem is created by a tree that basically doesn't follow the shape of the horse's back and some panels that don't fit well enough to let the saddle "fake it" and stay still. You can try to feel around the panels (with saddle ungirthed on a naked horse) to see if you can feel gaps underneath the stirrup bars and center of the seat. Usually, that's where the problem is if the rest of it looks ok.

            mvp: am I looking for bridging?

            Here is a picture of my mare. She is currently in a Smith Worthington, I am looking at a Pessoa, but wasn't sure. http://www.flickr.com/photos/7541204...in/photostream (she has lost some weight since this photo!)
            Handmade Cotton Fabric Dog Collars
            http://www.etsy.com/shop/DesignsByJinx

            Comment


            • #7
              The saddle SHOULD bridge a bit on most horses when they are standing relaxed. As the horse lifts his back when he moves, it generally flattens out. How much depends on the horse. I have one filly who can start trotting and the saddle that fit well while she was standing lifts about 4" in the back.

              Even trotting with a lifted back, the panels need to make full contact at the cantle.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Well, bad saddle fit was confirmed tonight. I had an Equine Massage Therapist out and my mare was super tight in the back in the saddle pressure areas. Even my novice hand could feel the before and after work on the muscles to work out the tension. I feel so bad now for my girl! I guess the saddle hunt continues.
                Handmade Cotton Fabric Dog Collars
                http://www.etsy.com/shop/DesignsByJinx

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's not as simple as a black and white answer to why a cantle bounces around.

                  The whole tree might be too curvy for the horse - can't fix that, ever.

                  The tree might be too wide up front, causing it to lift in the back - as long as the overall shape is correct for that horse, you can fix this, quite nicely in many cases, with proper padding.
                  ______________________________
                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JB View Post
                    The whole tree might be too curvy for the horse - can't fix that, ever.

                    The tree might be too wide up front, causing it to lift in the back - as long as the overall shape is correct for that horse, you can fix this, quite nicely in many cases, with proper padding.

                    Those are all good guesses-- especially looking at your mare's flat back and well-sprung rib cage.

                    Even if you don't feel bridging, a curvy tree on a flat-backed horse has a hard time. Panels can't stabilize it.

                    If she is thick up front, changes are that you will find a wide tree to accommodate her shoulder. Then, if the tree is too curved (front to back), it will rock.

                    I'm glad you had a pro come take a look and teach you what to look/feel for, too. I think riders who pay attention to how their horse looks/feels day to day can get a lot done to minimize bad saddle fit and then teach themselves to choose better.

                    Do a search for "house of duct tape and physical therapy" here if you want to find some down-home advice for helping a horse already in muscle spasm and pain. It doesn't have to tak e a long time and a lot of professional work to fix if you catch it soon.
                    The armchair saddler
                    Politically Pro-Cat

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      She is wide in the chest/shoulders and well sprung, but I put my friend's wide Bates saddle on her and she was swimming in it. It almost sat on her withers and had a ton of room between the front of the saddle and her side/shoulder. I put a few other medium trees on her and those looked nice in the wither/shoulder area, but then she is well sprung and broad in the back so the panels didn't seem quite right. I am not quite sure that she needs a hoop tree since she has some wither height and is narrower through the withers.
                      Handmade Cotton Fabric Dog Collars
                      http://www.etsy.com/shop/DesignsByJinx

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RunningRedLights View Post
                        She is wide in the chest/shoulders and well sprung, but I put my friend's wide Bates saddle on her and she was swimming in it.
                        The W gullet isn't really all that wide, so it's confusing to think she's that wide but is "swimming" in this width.

                        It almost sat on her withers and had a ton of room between the front of the saddle and her side/shoulder.
                        That has little to do with the width, and much more to do with the shape being all wrong. All that room between the top of the panel and her shoulder is either because 1) it's too narrow, or 2) the more likely scenario here, too steep/too A-frame for her build.

                        I put a few other medium trees on her and those looked nice in the wither/shoulder area, but then she is well sprung and broad in the back so the panels didn't seem quite right. I am not quite sure that she needs a hoop tree since she has some wither height and is narrower through the withers.
                        Hoop tree has nothing to do with wither height. Shoulders are what you fit firstly, in terms of width. You still have the rest of the back and ribs to fit as well. THEN you look at the withers. She may do well in a hoop tree, to deal with her shoulders, and wither gussets to fill in around the withers.

                        My next step would be to contact www.trumbullmtn.com and get the wither/back tracing process going. Black Country makes very nice saddles, including options for wither gussets, and the shape of your mare, both from the picture and your description, sounds like BC might be a good option.
                        ______________________________
                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JB View Post
                          It's not as simple as a black and white answer to why a cantle bounces around.
                          Yes I also have a custom Black Country with a cantle that has started rocking. My trainer (who has seen the saddle) and a saddle fitter (who I contacted via e-mail) have told me this is a problem that most likely can be fixed, so the black-and-white "you're screwed" answers sound a little over the top. I have the saddle fitter coming in the middle of May. In the meantime, we're making do with a pad.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by JB View Post
                            The W gullet isn't really all that wide, so it's confusing to think she's that wide but is "swimming" in this width.
                            When the wide saddle is on her, the front of the saddle/above the knee roll were not even touching her trapezius area and it was sitting low over her withers. She is build solid, wide through her body (in my opinion) through the chest, forearm, haunches. But....behind and below the withers she is narrower. So, my concern is a correct fit to accommodate the front half of the saddle maybe being a bit narrower then the back of the saddle over a broad back.

                            Thank you for the advice about Trumbull. I am checking them out now!
                            Handmade Cotton Fabric Dog Collars
                            http://www.etsy.com/shop/DesignsByJinx

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Fitting wide shoulders can require a considerably wide tree with the wither gussets to fill in above the shoulders/below the withers. It will be interesting to see what Trumbull says about your tracing - would you be so kind as to let me know?
                              ______________________________
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Email or call Smith Worthington since that's what you currently have. They have extensive fit/wither tracing instructions on their website but they can probably get a sense of fit based on your description of your mare and how the saddle isn't working. Maybe it's just a major reflock/repanel or maybe they can work a trade for your current saddle. I have no idea, but it's worth a try. They've been super helpful with me when I called with questions.
                                Flip a coin. It's not what side lands that matters, but what side you were hoping for when the coin was still in the air.

                                You call it boxed wine. I call it carboardeaux.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  I am doing tracing and photos today, will post an update from SW and Trumbull!
                                  Handmade Cotton Fabric Dog Collars
                                  http://www.etsy.com/shop/DesignsByJinx

                                  Comment

                                  Working...
                                  X