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tooth stuff...but out of the ordinary...last page update

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  • tooth stuff...but out of the ordinary...last page update

    ok
    my Middlest Child has a gelding that she loves.Big yellow camel lipped jug head that takes care of her every time and every ride. the whole "earned his spot" kinda thing

    so about 4 days ago we notice he has stopped eating grass in the pasture with his 3 welsh cob friends and is losing weight like snow melts in the spring...

    now they are all a decade or more younger (he is 15-16),round as sausages and he stands over them by 8 inches and is not the bottom of the pen by no means...but he is in some sort of low grade pain,that is obvious...

    anyway we take the regular "prevent defense" measures,get him eating and wait for the vet who comes today...(the downside of living on a remote mt is a vet that is only in the county 12 hours a week)

    he draws blood and checks his teeth (which were hand floated late last summer)

    he noted that the horse has a "much older mouth" in the back than the front and that the slope from inside to outside was so severe that the tooth was worn all the way to the gum line and he thought that was causing him the difficulty chewing in the shelled corn that we had given him....

    soooo slow and careful and half hearted but no spillage or head tilting...he was a different horse eating the plain oats tonight....

    so while we wait for blood tests to return and go with the aftercare...has anyone heard of such a thing? we have had him only 1.5 years or so...his previous owner is appalled and blames some money generating power floats over the last 10 years...but I don't know...comments? aid?

    Tamara
    Last edited by Tamara in TN; May. 18, 2012, 08:09 PM.
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

  • #2
    Any hard "swellings" where the roots of molars would be? That could indicate a tooth root infection, which, if it's gone unnoticed long enough, can turn into an abscessed tooth, which would cause pain.

    Hope he's feeling better soon, poor guy.
    Full-time bargain hunter.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by onelanerode View Post
      Any hard "swellings" where the roots of molars would be? That could indicate a tooth root infection, which, if it's gone unnoticed long enough, can turn into an abscessed tooth, which would cause pain.

      Hope he's feeling better soon, poor guy.
      not that he mentioned only that the whole inside of the back molars were sloped enough to the outside that they were at the gumline...like a much older animal...

      we've never heard of such a thing...the worst teeth/tooth drama we have EVER had is the old welsh stallion has a wavy mouth in the back and one broken first molar in a cutting mare years ago (and they wondered why she tossed her head?)

      but that has been the full extent of our horse tooth drama in the last 25 years

      Tamara
      Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
      I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

      Comment


      • #4
        I just asked because my mare presented with a hard bony swelling around the root of the front lower premolar; the first vet who looked at it wasn't concerned and said not to worry, but my regular vet went WTH, took rads and consulted with our state's vet school. Diagnosis was a tooth root infection.

        IIRC my vet told me they aren't often caught early; usually you notice when the tooth has abscessed and the horse has a nasty scent or discharge from the nostrils.

        A few months after that one resolved, the mare developed another one on the other side of her lower jaw, which I found when checking on the first one. (I'd been comparing it to the "normal" side ... and then suddenly the "infected" side was the "normal" side and the "normal" side wasn't "normal" any longer.) It was very strange.

        Other than that my teeth experiences have been "normal" as well ... now I've gone and jinxed myself, no doubt.
        Full-time bargain hunter.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          [QUOTE]
          Originally posted by onelanerode View Post
          I just asked because my mare presented with a hard bony swelling around the root of the front lower premolar; the first vet who looked at it wasn't concerned and said not to worry, but my regular vet went WTH, took rads and consulted with our state's vet school. Diagnosis was a tooth root infection.
          while searching tonight for our guys problem (no luck) I did find this cool Xray



          http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/302488/enlarge

          Tamara
          Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
          I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

          Comment


          • #6
            From what I understand in your description is the horse has a shear mouth. That is an exaggerated slope from side to side on the same molar. Or are you describing a wave mouth? It isn't a common problem but it isn't all that rare. (shear mouth) It sounds like your horse didn't have good dental care through it's life. Those are all things that a good vet that is an equine dentist corrects every year in little increments. Now that the horse is older, there isn't much that can be done to correct a mouth that has been neglected. Didn't the person that hand floated the horse last year mention how bad the horses teeth were? They certainly should have as it is extremely rare for a horse of 15-16 to have molars worn to the gum. It sounds like the horse has a wave and a shear mouth?

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by davistina67 View Post
              From what I understand in your description is the horse has a shear mouth. That is an exaggerated slope from side to side on the same molar. Or are you describing a wave mouth? It isn't a common problem but it isn't all that rare. (shear mouth) It sounds like your horse didn't have good dental care through it's life. Those are all things that a good vet that is an equine dentist corrects every year in little increments. Now that the horse is older, there isn't much that can be done to correct a mouth that has been neglected. Didn't the person that hand floated the horse last year mention how bad the horses teeth were? They certainly should have as it is extremely rare for a horse of 15-16 to have molars worn to the gum. It sounds like the horse has a wave and a shear mouth?

              they are neither wave nor shorn....and they have been power floated every year religiously,every year, for the last decade, apparently,whether he needed it or not. He has been stall kept and grain feed and giving lessons that whole time.

              Now as I understand the back molars are worn off to the gums on the back inside,but they do not come to any points as shear mouth would. And the bite matches smoothly all the way down.

              The same vet who did his teeth last fall is the one who saw him today....that was for a sharp point toward the front and it was a hand float.

              A second mare from the same farm, done that same day was far worse as I remember.

              It would seem that we are just going to have to do things a little different for him.

              Tamara
              Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
              I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

              Comment


              • #8
                It would be very normal for any horse to be power floated every year. It does sound somewhat like a shear mouth. What is sounds like is the people they have had float him did not know how to correct his mouth. It sounds like the guy that hand floated him last year didn't work towards a correction either? On a good physical it would found that the occlusion of the theta were incorrect.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by davistina67 View Post
                  It would be very normal for any horse to be power floated every year. It does sound somewhat like a shear mouth. What is sounds like is the people they have had float him did not know how to correct his mouth. It sounds like the guy that hand floated him last year didn't work towards a correction either? On a good physical it would found that the occlusion of the theta were incorrect.
                  check for pm :>

                  Tamara
                  Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                  I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    random update....40 days from the start of the drama he has gotten to hit the turnout for the first time tonight....he has decided not to die and eats the Senior with Amplify (thanks to Rusty Bane as always for the support and advice!!) like he means it....

                    it was not just the feed however as a few days ago approaching the end of my tether and his time with us on this Earth...I said to him "you stupid SOB what do I have to do...lift it to your mouth???"

                    and then.
                    the clouds parted.

                    I put his 25 gal feed tub on the 25 inch tall bale of hay and poured the feed in.
                    and waited.
                    he ate slowly
                    and ate
                    and ate and ate and ate more in that evening of the processed Senior feed than he had nibbled at the whole day.
                    why I do not know why but the change is amazing.
                    such that I will violate the number one rule of the internet ** and post about it.
                    flame away,we are delighted

                    Tamara
                    **NEVER ACT LIKE YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING :>
                    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hurrah!!!







                      except now I'd be looking at his neck for arthritis etc

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        might want to check and see if he hurts elsewhere. Alto is right.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Raising the food pan/bowl works for arthritic dogs, so it may be that he has arthritis in his neck.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Raising feed pan is recommended for cats with pancreatitis. Less chance of irritating esophagus, acid reflux? I don't know what the reasoning was.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by ACP View Post
                              might want to check and see if he hurts elsewhere. Alto is right.
                              we have. as well blood work normal and no noticeable pain or swelling anywhere...the vet has been here twice since the drama started

                              I wonder if the horse sinus,when the teeth are all low and messed up that way,swells and puts pressure on the head such that they don't want to lower it any more then they have to in order to survive?

                              just like we would feel pressure pain and swelling with mouth injuries....the first sign we had was he stopped grazing lovely green grass he'd been on for weeks....then the hay and then the feed...in that order...I have always fed in pans on the ground to keep their airways clear and drained

                              he is a 400% different animal this morning. we are thrilled.


                              Tamara
                              Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                              I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
                                not that he mentioned only that the whole inside of the back molars were sloped enough to the outside that they were at the gumline...like a much older animal...

                                we've never heard of such a thing...the worst teeth/tooth drama we have EVER had is the old welsh stallion has a wavy mouth in the back and one broken first molar in a cutting mare years ago (and they wondered why she tossed her head?)

                                but that has been the full extent of our horse tooth drama in the last 25 years

                                Tamara
                                I hear this over and over about horses that have been power floated over the years. Oy, it can just wreck their mouths so badly! Glad you were on it, Tamara, and hope he does better.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Abby Kogler View Post
                                  I hear this over and over about horses that have been power floated over the years. Oy, it can just wreck their mouths so badly! Glad you were on it, Tamara, and hope he does better.
                                  hey Abby!
                                  Rusty from Purina told me that a vet/dentist friend of his out Memphis way has at least a dozen horses in his care that have this problem...he was not surprised about it and told me exactly what to do for Atty.

                                  Tamara
                                  Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                                  I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    ok so this will (hopefully) be the last update on the Yellow Board-faced Gelding.

                                    he has eaten about 15 lbs of Equine Senior a day since about May 20...so that is 15 days ?

                                    and the change is Craaa-zzy good....all energy back, most of the weight back...and trying to eat like a normal animal

                                    had the vet out to drain more of my husbands life savings ;>
                                    and in the very back of the throat in the top we found four tiny unconnected grain of rice sized pimples

                                    and another on the left upper side the size of about 6 connected rice grains that had split and drained itself already and was healing up....

                                    maybe in dropping his head fully these places came in contact with the food????

                                    dunno

                                    but Child the Middlest will take him for the first spin out since we thought he would die on april 8,tomorrow after lunch...just a piddly walk about to see how it goes....just thought some would want the update

                                    nite!

                                    Tamara
                                    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                                    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Yippee Hooray!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        yay! hope your poor hubs didn't lose too much of his life savings lol!
                                        Michael: Seems the people who burned me want me for a job.
                                        Sam: A job? Does it pay?
                                        Michael: Nah, it's more of a "we'll kill you if you don't do it" type of thing.
                                        Sam: Oh. I've never liked those.

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