• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

How to explain to vet my funds aren't unlimited? UPDATE #92

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How to explain to vet my funds aren't unlimited? UPDATE #92

    Just as the title reads. The mare has a confirmed case of strangles. As soon as her fever spiked (morning after I purchased her and hauled her home) I took her to A&M's large animal hospital.

    Tomorrow will be the one week mark and she has run up a bill of over $1400. I don't know how to explain to the vet that my funds are not unlimited here. I am a single young teacher, living on a teacher salary. No help from mommy and daddy, no help from a significant other. The longer she stays in isolation at A&M the more I stress.

    She is getting a daily lavage to clear the guttural pouches of mucous. From what I have read, strangles is fairly common and does not require such treatment. I have emailed and called other vets for second and third opinions, but have not heard back. Perhaps they don't want to step on toes?

    Obviously, not all horses that contract strangles are locked in an isolation stall at A&M or other equine hospitals. How do you handle a strangles horse, then? I've been offered a small area on a friend's non-horsey property where she can live alone until confirmed non-contagious via the PCR testing I plan to do. Would you remove the mare from the hospital? Would you let them continue the daily lavage?

    I'm at a loss here. I just spent a bulk of my savings to purchase the mare, and now I'm spending money I don't have to pay for isolation care. Please don't drop the line of "horses are expensive" or "you should have planned for unexpected vet bills." I know horses are expensive. I did plan for unexpected vet bills. Just not thousands of dollars the day after I paid thousands for the mare.

    I'm looking for some words of advice and jingles for the mare. The seller has taken the stance of, "that's too bad." She literally sent me a text message this morning that reads, "awe that's too bad."
    Last edited by LEL; Mar. 29, 2012, 10:49 AM.

  • #2
    I personally would move the mare and give her a goat for a buddy with nice safe fencing and shelter, unless this is a crazy case she does not need to be at a vet hospital

    Comment


    • #3
      Ask them? Is she that severe she needs that treatment or would she be perfectly fine solo somewhere with you attending to her? Did the previous owner get her from auction? I'd be a little more concerned if I were her that a horse that left my property was confirmed with strangles the next day.
      Kerri

      Comment


      • #4
        Yep, take her home, she might even be fine solo for the few weeks she needs to recover.

        I have only been through strangles once, but in my case, no hospitalization needed, not at all! I think the vet was out twice. Once to confirm yes strangles, and give me the care protocol, the second time to declare all clear.

        At first the abscess that had formed under the jaw had not yet surfaced, so the vet had us hot compressing several times daily until it started to drain.

        Then, once open, we would lavage the wound twice daily with a betadine solution. But just the lower abscessed area, we were not trying to flush high guttural pouches.

        Horse was closely monitored, temp taken 2 -3 times a day, hydration etc watched.
        APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman

        Comment


        • #5
          Texas probably has a law that any horse diagnosed with strangles has to stay where it is until cleared-that may be why the other vets are not responding. In that case, talk to A&M and just tell them you can't afford the lavage much longer. You are going to be stuck in quarantine for awhile but it should be on the way to clearing up at the 7 day point.

          Alot of people prefer to leave them at home with a condition that requires quarantine-long as they are not running too high a fever and drowning in snot, they don't want them at the clinic for 30 days with non life threatening conditions. Too late now and probably best for the mare you took her in.

          But they can keep her quarantined and cut back on the lavage, you have to talk to them though. Soon. And see how long you are looking at after the symptoms clear before you can move her. You can also ask about payment options-you are not then only one that needs them.

          If she spiked a fever the day after you bought her? You may have recourse with the seller, she was sick when you signed the bill of sale and hauled her away. I would definately get in touch with them and see about at least ponying up on that vet bill for the sick horse they sold you.
          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

          Comment


          • #6
            Not necessarily specific to your question but what did you bill of sale state as far as your purchase. Most infections have a certain incubation time and it's likely that she was infected when you bought her. Depending on your states laws (some states have lemon laws pertaining to animal sales), you may have some recourse with the seller to recoup some of your costs.

            I would get a statement from the treating vet about the specifics of your horse's case, the average incubation time and that the veterinarian believes that the horse was infected prior to your purchase. Put that in your back pocket just in case you need it.

            A woman I know did that with a puppy she purchased that came down with Parvo a few days after she bought him. She got the full purchase price of the puppy back from the breeder and additional for damages.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by kasjordan View Post
              Ask them? Is she that severe she needs that treatment or would she be perfectly fine solo somewhere with you attending to her? Did the previous owner get her from auction? I'd be a little more concerned if I were her that a horse that left my property was confirmed with strangles the next day.
              The vet's reasoning for keeping her where she is and doing the daily lavage is that when the mucous is not cleared from the guttural pouches, it becomes extremely hard. He calls them little rocks. Those rocks are supposedly the reason some horses become carriers for months after contracting strangles. By clearing the mucous, he is preventing this.

              The previous owner did not get her from an auction. She was with a cutting horse trainer and was hauled to sortings all over Colorado and Texas.

              The seller is checking her own horses for temperatures, but is less than concerned about selling me an infected horse.

              My contract states horse was sold "as is." No warranties on health. I've been trying to find legislation for the state of Texas, but have been unsuccessful. If anyone has some luck, feel free to PM, email, or post a response to me here.

              Comment


              • #8
                Talk to the vet asap! You need to be straight up about what you can afford. They hear it all the time and can make a plan within your budget (even if it means payments) and within state laws (quarantine). If they "dont get it",tell them your sob story: let them know there is a point at which the horse you just purchased will have to be put down if something doesnt change and how it will take you years to rebuy.

                Don't forget about carecredit (don't put it on a regular credit card and make minimum payments).

                There may be a way they can legally allow you to move a horse from one quarantine to another with the proper actions. I would start by asking that.



                And ditto finding out about animal lemon laws in TX. No doubt you were sold a sick horse (even if the seller didn't know it either).

                Good luck!

                Comment


                • #9
                  When I was in college we had horses contract strangles. This is a facility with almost 70 horses on site and we quarantined the confirmed cases and were able to keep the infected down to only 7. The only time I have ever heard of a horse having to be at a vet hospital is when they come down with bastard stangles in which they can literally drown in their own mucous. Strangles is just a cold, its not a life sentence (I know you dont think this). I would bring the mare to non horsey friends place and treat her at home the best you can. Even if you have to continue to schedule field exams for a lavage every other day (or however often you feel is necessary) it would still end up being cheaper than round the clock care at A&M, or any vet clinic.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've personally been through strangles (in addition to being present while it was going through barns) and I can't even imagine needing to be isolated at a vet clinic with round-the-clock care.

                    My little guy who got it was an auction pull, a little mule. His abscesses burst on day three of my ownership (eww.) and he was hard to handle to boot. We just kept him on tons of antibiotics, and I managed to get a hose and some betadine solution under his jaw once or twice a day, whenever I could get ahold of him. My vet never said anything about "stones." He was cleared up within a few weeks...and he was otherwise pretty skinny and unhealthy, so it probably took longer than it should have.

                    If she's allowed to leave the clinic, take her to your friend's house (what a nice offer!) and take care of her yourself...it's not that hard, and shame on the vet at the clinic for continuing to rack up such a large pill for what is a pretty simple issue. (This is, of course, assuming that there is no reason for keeping her besides "we don't trust you to clean it.")

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Is your mare a serious case? Ive never heard of taking a horse to the vet school just because of a mild case.....so maybe theres more to the story?

                      Ive been through a couple of instances of strangles at various barns and never did a daily lavage to clear the guttural pouches enter into the equation except when a horse was a known carrier.

                      IME, strangles is treated with the least invasive/expensive options to begin with with rest prescribed later if it doesnt resolve or if there are complications.

                      This really stinks for you. You just bought her! UGH!!! And dont feel bad. I leased a horse, brought him to my boarding stable, a week later, the barn came down with strangles (another new boarder was a carrier), and lucky for me, he came down with Purpura haemorrhagica a bit later on. I spent every single cent of my savings account and racked up $$ on my credit card to keep him alive (and he wasnt at the vet school I might add). Then I got to pay board until our quarantine was lifted. I got to ride him ONCE before I had to send him packing because I was out of money. Oh, horses!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This is the list of reportable diseases in Texas:

                        http://info.sos.state.tx.us/fids/200904288-1.html

                        Here is a general link on rules and statutes, with information on where to go look for details:

                        http://www.tahc.state.tx.us/regs/code.html

                        This might help you get started.
                        Halt Near X | Horse Bloggers - Blog Directory

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "I appreciate everything you have done for my horse, you've been fantastic. Unfortunately I only have xxx amount of money left to devote to this issue. I cannot go one penny over. How can we make sure that doesnt happen?"
                          "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                          ---
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by BeanCounterPony View Post
                            Is your mare a serious case? Ive never heard of taking a horse to the vet school just because of a mild case.....so maybe theres more to the story?
                            No more to my story than what is posted. I initially took her to A&M to get her out of the boarding stable. I didn't want to infect every other horse with whatever she had.

                            What is "carecredit," flyracing?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Care Credit

                              Care credit is basically a credit card. Vets accept it, as well as some human dentists and other providers.

                              Basically, it's interest-free for a year or 18 months, depending on the amount charged. However, if the balance is not paid off in time, there is a hefty interest fee (I think it's currently around 22%) and that is retroactive to the date of the original charge. Best to ensure it's paid off in time!

                              Here's more info: http://www.carecredit.com/vetmed/

                              You can apply online if you wish.

                              Best wishes to you & your horse.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                It's a loan specifically for paying vet bills. Basically you request an amount up to the total bill and they give you a credit card with that amount on it to pay your bill (or some vets in the program are paid directly, I think). Then you pay at the pre arranged payment schedule (lot of options you choose from). The interest rate is like One of those advertised car loans (0-4% rate depending, but usually 0) instead of a credit card. You get a specified time to pay off at that rate. The difference on paying 3k off over a year could easily be over 1k! It's a life saver for many animal owners and can be used on anything charged on the bill (even unrelated tests, procedures, drugs).

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by flyracing View Post
                                  It's a loan specifically for paying vet bills. Basically you request an amount up to the total bill and they give you a credit card with that amount on it to pay your bill (or some vets in the program are paid directly, I think). Then you pay at the pre arranged payment schedule (lot of options you choose from). The interest rate is like a loan (0-4% rate depending, but usually 0) instead of a credit card. You get a specified time to pay off at that rate. The difference on paying 3k off over a year could easily be over 1k! It's a life saver for many animal owners and can be used on anything charged on the bill (even unrelated tests, procedures, drugs).
                                  Flyracing, the carecredit program may have changed since you last used it. It isn't like a loan, it is a credit card. You can't request the amount of $$ you want to borrow; GE Money Bank (who I pay my carecredit bills to) tells you what your credit limit will be when you apply - just like any other credit card. The interest rate is dependant on how much is charged.

                                  I last used carecredit for a medically managed colic with a week-long stay in the clinic (late November), if that makes any difference.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by LEL View Post
                                    Tomorrow will be the one week mark and she has run up a bill of over $1400. I don't know how to explain to the vet that my funds are not unlimited here. I am a single young teacher, living on a teacher salary. No help from mommy and daddy, no help from a significant other. The longer she stays in isolation at A&M the more I stress.
                                    You need to tell the vet exactly what you've just said. We have enough horses, and older horses, that they all have a $ limit established for treatment. I'm sorry, I can't in good conscience, justify jeopardizing my ability to keep my house, my credit, my dogs and my other horses to keep one going.

                                    So, you need the have "the talk" with the vet. You'd be amazed how many vets will cut you a deal when they know you just can't afford expensive treatment. If not, well, you may have some decisions to make.

                                    I'd talk to a lawyer first before making any serious decisions about your recourse against the seller.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by LEL View Post

                                      The seller is checking her own horses for temperatures, but is less than concerned about selling me an infected horse.

                                      My contract states horse was sold "as is." No warranties on health. I've been trying to find legislation for the state of Texas, but have been unsuccessful. If anyone has some luck, feel free to PM, email, or post a response to me here.
                                      The fact the mare got sick 24 hours from pick up can probably be persued, as is or not...what is that phrase? "basic warranty of suitablity"???? something like that. Means it is not going to drop dead or get deathly ill the minute you get it home. This horse did get deathly ill with a highly communicable disease.

                                      I really think a call to an attorney would be worth it. Keep all the paperwork including time frame in order.

                                      Er, not sure about the "mucous rocks". Been around quite a few with strangles over the years, none were lavaged. Just isolated and antibiotics, a few needed fluids for high fever. No lavage and they were not contagious after symptoms were cleared, nothing else got sick. Not sure it's a vital and neccessary part of treatment for 7+ days when it requires additional drugs (tranqs) and saline (for which you will pay premium prices) on an already too big bill.
                                      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by tarynls View Post
                                        Flyracing, the carecredit program may have changed since you last used it. It isn't like a loan, it is a credit card. You can't request the amount of $$ you want to borrow; GE Money Bank (who I pay my carecredit bills to) tells you what your credit limit will be when you apply - just like any other credit card. The interest rate is dependant on how much is charged.

                                        I last used carecredit for a medically managed colic with a week-long stay in the clinic (late November), if that makes any difference.
                                        Well, it's been over 8-10 years for me sounds like the gist of the program is the same. However, it is still very much "like" a loan from the way I think of it. These days many small loans are given on credit cards (they just like to track spending... Evil laugh )

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X