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Can you buy chondriotin separately?

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  • Can you buy chondriotin separately?

    Have you seen it anywhere? I don't like to buy the mixes I see for joint supplements because I get a much better deal buying the ingredients. I use msm and glucosamine, but I want to add chondriotin because of my mare's needs. (My vet thinks the feed supplements for hylauronic acid are not useful.) I haven't seen it and can't find it.

    I looked up the old thread on buying from bulk foods .com, or something like that, and it didn't seem that great of deal.

  • #2
    http://www.nutrabio.com/Products/chondroitin.htm

    I buy mine from above, use it in combo with adequan.
    I feed two scoops or servings a day, 3000mg, which is what you'll find in joint sups.
    I like it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Springtime's J-Flex is just chondroitin

      http://www.springtimeinc.com/product...entrate/horses
      RIP Victor... I'll miss you, you big galumph.

      Comment


      • #4
        HorseTech also carries it:

        http://www.horsetech.com/chondroitin-sulfate.htm

        Comment


        • #5
          There are a few more out there, but honestly why pay more if you can get 100% pure no filler relatively cheap.

          The other ones out there :
          Flex Free
          http://www.valleyvet.biz/ct_detail.h...04ae5&gas=Flex Free
          Flexxion
          http://www.valleyvet.biz/ct_detail.h...as=chondroitin sulfate
          Flex-Force CS liquid & pellets
          http://www.valleyvet.biz/ct_detail.h...as=chondroitin sulfate
          http://www.valleyvet.biz/ct_detail.h...as=chondroitin sulfate

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Thanks! I was ON Valley Vet last night and putting in chondriotin, and none of that came up! It's very annoying! I want to buy from them, though, because they have by far the best deal on vitamin e and selenium.

            So, Lieslot, I'm having trouble figuring out the cost per use with the way the nutrabio. site gives size. Do you have a cost per feeding or whatever? How long does, say, 1,000 grams, last? I'm not getting a sense of how much that is. The one on VV says how much you get with it per scoop, but the other one doesn't.

            Comment


            • #7
              www.mybesthorse.com

              GREAT prices and free shipping!

              Comment


              • #8
                http://purebulk.com/chondroitin-sulfate-usa

                Very helpful people - lots of good stuff available

                Comment


                • #9
                  Depends on how much you want to feed a day.

                  I give 2 scoops, which equals 3000mg or 3g, daily.
                  A 500g tub, will give 166 servings for $46.
                  A 1000g tub, will give you 333 servings for $81 (nearly a year's supply).

                  I like nutrabio, I was introduced to them via Dr Kellon's forum where it was suggested for those using acetyl l-carnitine for epsm-horses.

                  They have lots of usable amino acids & sups that can be handy for us, horseowners.
                  The other day I ordered l-glutamine from harmany equine, only to find nutrabio had it too and hugely cheaper. From now on I check them first.

                  Also the thing with joint sups, we still don't know for sure if 'any' of them really work or end up where we want them. Until we know for sure I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but know I may be wasting my money, then I'd like to waste as little as pos and still have the best product I could find .

                  If you use them, don't forget to enter the shipping code for $6.95 shipping.

                  I agree with NorCalDressage, purebulk.com is another great option, I have never used them, but know people that have and were totally satisfied.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
                    Thanks! I was ON Valley Vet last night and putting in chondriotin, and none of that came up! It's very annoying! I want to buy from them, though, because they have by far the best deal on vitamin e and selenium.
                    Check your spelling of chondroitin. If you spelled it the way you did here it's not going to find the products you want. It's a confusing word to spell correctly.
                    "Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple” – Barry Switzer

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      mswillie--Oops! You're right.

                      Thanks, Lieslot. Very useful. I'm with you on not knowing if it really works, but being horse people, we want to do our best. That's why I don't like to buy mixes. I like to buy just the ingredients I think work and add or take out as needed.

                      So, what's I glutamine used for? From what I could see, maybe for ulcers?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It helps heal ulcers. It's in ulcer & hindgut medication, like Succeed (oat flour, l-glutamine & l-threonine), SmartGut, Uckele's GUT and a few more.

                        Seems we are thinking along the same lines . Usually I use a supplement marketed for equines first and once I think (of course very subjective ) it works, then I see if I can make up the ingredients myself and it does save me money.

                        Another example is the respiratory sups often containing N-Acetyl Cysteine, which helps expels mucus. I started using nutrabio's, for my older guy with RAO and it works as well as when I buy an equine marketed product. Plus I feel I know I got the real stuff from them in the amount I feed, something with those horse supplements, the label says one thing, but you aren't really sure the amounts they say are truly in there.

                        I feel comfortable doing so and save quite a few bucks that way.

                        Purebulk.com does have a wider range however, I may venture over there one day .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I find your vet's advice a bit confusing, seeing as how HA is one of the very few oral joint supplement ingredients with any published scientific literature that suggests it might do some good. What is his logic for recommending all of the other ingredients over HA?

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            I feed msm and glucosamine already as a standard protocol for horses over 10-12. I asked my vet about the effectiveness of feeding HA, and she said she didn't think they were very effective and was probably a waste of money. She said I would be better off adding chondroitin. She is a lameness specialist and does this a lot. She's done a lot of joint injections versus seeing supplements, so I guess it's based on what she sees.

                            I found this on Rutger's site:
                            "Ingredient: Hyaluronate sodium
                            Administration: Intravenous (IV); Oral
                            Research: Clinical research on the efficacy of oral forms of hyaluronan-based supplements has yet to be completed. Intravenous hyaluronic acid (HA) treatment has been shown to improve lameness scores by interacting with cells in the joint fluid and reducing local inflammation and subsequent pain. The best use for HA is thought to be in horses suffering from acute injury or mild to moderate joint inflammation where its anti-inflammatory properties will be the most beneficial/therapeutic.

                            There is some debate regarding the efficacy of treatment with an intra-articular injection (into the joint) of high molecular weight HA versus low molecular weight HA. Very little clinical research has been conducted on this, and the existing studies do not provide unequivocal evidence that molecular weight has a direct pharmacological effect on efficacy."
                            http://esc.rutgers.edu/ask_expert/ate_nuts.htm

                            Interesting information on that page.

                            This is from HorseAdvice.com
                            "Robert N. Oglesby DVM
                            Moderator
                            Username: Dro

                            Post Number: 15600
                            Registered: 1-1997
                            Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 9:24 am:
                            Hello Michele,
                            There continues to be no scientific or clinical research on the use of HA orally in humans or horses that I can find. We are not recommending its use orally.
                            DrO"

                            When looking at the research I think you looked at, this was Dr's O's response:
                            "Ann I received the fax and looked over the work and found the results not significant. Yes the oral hyaluronate had an increase in circulating levels but the level of increase and the variations in the control and injected horse levels were all of similar magnitudes: it is uncertain if this indicated a medication increase and if it does it is unknown if this would be clinically helpful. It's use should be considered experimental.
                            DrO"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Montanas_Girl View Post
                              I find your vet's advice a bit confusing, seeing as how HA is one of the very few oral joint supplement ingredients with any published scientific literature that suggests it might do some good. What is his logic for recommending all of the other ingredients over HA?
                              Agree -

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                NorCal and Montana--Do you have any link to the published scientific literature? The only one I could find was the one Dr. O responded to above.

                                "Which means that oral HA does have some effectiveness and is better than what I had initially thought. With that said it is still expensive in comparison to other oral joint supplements and the studies have not been conducted to determine if it is any better than other supplements or better than injectable HA. I know it is not better than Adequan as the research on Adequan suggest some cartilage rebuild where as HA does not." http://horsekinetics.com/oral-hyalur...nge-of-opinion

                                More searching and the only places I can see that say the studies say it works are places selling it. Everything else I'm seeing says only injected HA has been proven to work. It's interesting you guys feel so sure it works. I wonder if it's good advertising or there's anything to it.

                                Anyway, send out a big order to purebulk for the chondroitin, and got some biotin and a few other things because it was so cheap. They were plumb out of sylvia, which is a bummer, as it was WAY cheaper to buy it there than Trader Joe's. They sent me an email saying the biotin could be dangerous if I didn't know how to measure it, and I said it was for horses. Nice to know they check.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  https://www.kinetictech.net/pdf/Sodi...icacyStudy.pdf

                                  https://www.kinetictech.net/pdf/ConquerStudy_EVJ.pdf

                                  Yes, both of those are from Kinetic, which sells Conquer, but I didn't have the time to go searching at the moment.....

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
                                    I know it is not better than Adequan as the research on Adequan suggest some cartilage rebuild where as HA does not." http://horsekinetics.com/oral-hyalur...nge-of-opinion
                                    As far as I know, nothing has been shown or suggested that it is able to "rebuild" cartilage. Once it's gone, it's gone. I thought the point of Adequan is stop/prevent further damage, it increases HA levels in the joint, decreases destructive enzymes, etc.

                                    FWIW Dr. McIlwraith of CSU (where the Adequan study was done) is not exactly a fan of the Adequan study results. Although he does find it useful for IA hock injections. But he doesn't seem to be impressed with IM studies of Adequan.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Yeah, I kind of saw that study, though I don't know if I understand all of those big words. It seems to show that after surgery it has some usefulness. I don't know how useful that is as a normal supplement, though. If you can find something without an agenda that shows it actually works as an oral additive, I'd like to see it. That's my issue--it's kind of expensive and it's probably not harmful, but is it helping anything to feed it orally? I think msm has some use, just from my own experience, and glucosamine. That's why I like to feed individual ingredients, as I can add or take away and see if it makes any difference.

                                      I'm as bad as anyone else in just wanting to buy all of the cool things to add to my horses' feed, but I'm trying to keep it down to a minimum if there's no real use beyond depleting my wallet.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        The second link that NorCal provided is a legitimate, peer-reviewed article publised in the Journal of Equine Veterinary Medicine. Whether that study can be extrapolated to treating/preventing osteoarthritis remains to be seen, but it is at least SOMETHING promising, which is more than can be said for most of the other oral joint supplement ingredients...

                                        Honestly, oral joint supplements are best chosen by trial-and-error. No one REALLY knows what might or might not work, but the only thing they'll hurt (the mainstream ones, anyways) are your wallet.

                                        Comment

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