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Any experience with Pentaussie?

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  • After wading through that mess, I'll think I'll take the easy route and ask my vet about Pentosan/Pentaussie/Pentosan Gold vs Adequan for my guy who's been going soo much better after starting Adequan in the fall.

    Thank you for those that posted the informative studies and those that have the background to provide non-biased information on the drug! I never knew I wanted to know so much about compounding drugs in the US...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by hey101 View Post
      I had never heard of Pentaussie so I clicked on this thread- 45 minutes later, . So much misinformation from one specific poster.

      FDA has very clear guidance on compounding drugs for use in animals. From their own website, "FDA regulations specifically permit the compounding of products from approved animal or human drugs under the conditions set forth in 21 CFR 530.13. "

      21 CFR 530.13 basically says that if there is an approved drug on the market (which there is), there is no approved equine drug on the market (which there isn't), the compounding is done by a licensed pharmacy or vet, and all applicable state laws are followed, then it is completely legal.

      It is all laid out very clearly in the regulations. I cannot stand when people who have no idea what they are talking about spread so much incorrect information and completely confuse everyone.

      You are completely within legal guidelines to get Pentosan or Pentaussie compounded by your vet or pharmacist for your horse.
      Thank you thank you thank you for the good (and valid) information.
      "Aye God, Woodrow..."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Carolinadreamin'
        This thread has some great information. I had never heard of this drug before and would to hear more from people who have used it with success on their horses.
        I have used it with great success on my reining mare in heavy training. I use the 250 mg/ml pentosan. I have not used Pentaussie so I cannot comment on it.
        Only two emotions belong in the saddle: One is a sense of humor. The other is patience.

        Comment


        • First ride post-shot: Amazing. I have my horse back.

          YES!!!!

          Comment


          • [QUOTE=LookinSouth;6091600]

            I thought according to McIlwraths study he used Pentosan. PentAussie, from my limited understanding, is both Pentosan Polysulfate AND N-acetyl glucosamine which is not what he used in his study if I recall correctly. I wonder why he is recommending the Pentaussie specifically? Versus the Pentosan that was used in the study?





            If you could, you would be my hero!! I have heard so many different dosage rates for the Pentaussie. 12 ml, 6ml per dose etc.... It would be awesome to hear it from McIlwrath himself.
            Please keep us posted. Thanks
            So, I had an hour long conversation with Dr. McIlwraith today on Pentosan, PentAussie, compounding and the political/ethical drama that has been involved with it.

            Compounded Pentosan vs. PentAussie: The drug is the same drug. PentAussie adds N-Acetylglucosamine which is a precursor for chondroitin sulfate. Reasonable logic behind N-acetylglucosamine being added, there was one study done on it (which wasn't a very good/controlled study) comparing it to adequan and Adequan proved to be the better drug (PPS was NOT in the study). Otherwise it hasn't been proven to do much. However, it's not going to hurt. N-acetlyglucosamine has been compounded for years as an injection to replace or supplement oral glucosamine.
            They've done research (not yet published) that PentAussie is as efficacious as the original research on PPS (pentosan polysulfate). http://www.equineortho.colostate.edu...olysulfate.pdf

            Dose: He heard of people cutting that dose in half and advised against it. Remember, its not how many ml you're giving but how many mg/kg you're giving. There may be differences in concentrations within one vial. He said the dose was 3 mg/kg. In his study it specifically states that 3mg/kg may even be too small of a dose.

            Legality of compounding: Legally you cannot compound a drug if there is a licensed version available (which many of you have already said). However, PentAussie is not licensed in the U.S. (yet). It's expensive but it makes the drug much safer. Therefore it is legal to get it compounded. (I guess PentAussie and Wedgewood are having their own legal battles over this same issue).
            Issue with compounding: You're not guaranteed that what you're getting is the correct formulation of the drug since it isn't licensed (I guess wedgewood has had some ethical issues with this in the past, which is why we should all support licensed drugs).
            Originally Nutramax paid for the PPS study done by CSU so that they could get it licensed. For whatever reason they decided to for-go PPS and sell the recipe to Wedgwood to compound.

            Long story short, I think the different between Pentosan and PentAussie is minimal, its just where you get it from. Use the recommended dose, it can be used IM or IV and don't use it intra-articularly. Hopefully soon PentAussie will be licensed in the US and compounding the drug won't be an option. Disclaimer: This is my interpretation of the conversation I had with Dr. McIlwraith. Hope this helps out those who are interested in using these products.

            Comment


            • Awesome! Thanks for hitting the Doc up on this. I admit, there has been a lot of wrong info out there. Even with some of the vets at CSU. But, I would consider Dr McIlwraith the expert on this. I also was under the impression from vets that PentAussie was available, yet very costly, in the US, via overseas. It appears that info was not correct.

              Thanks again, your discussion answered a lot of my and hopefully some others questions.

              Comment


              • I admit, there has been a lot of wrong info out there
                Most from a single source. Hopefully this will be an end to non-stop derailing of Pentosan threads with shrieking IT'S ILLEGAL.
                Click here before you buy.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                  Most from a single source. Hopefully this will be an end to non-stop derailing of Pentosan threads with shrieking IT'S ILLEGAL.
                  Wow, you just like screwing with people don't you. [edit]
                  Last edited by Moderator 1; Jan. 21, 2012, 10:15 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Now now...many of us may and have been accused of purposely screwing with people. Delta is not one of those.

                    You kind of hung yourself on this one. A not uncommon scenario. Please don't swear at others for pointing out that it was most definitely you (again) giving out extremely incorrect information (again) and then proceeding to be excessively rude and snide to anyone who dare an attempt at correcting your misinformation. (again)

                    Haleigh didn't answer your questions because you didn't have any. You were too busy making pronouncements. (incorrect ones)

                    (again)
                    You jump in the saddle,
                    Hold onto the bridle!
                    Jump in the line!
                    ...Belefonte

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by MistyBlue View Post
                      Now now...many of us may and have been accused of purposely screwing with people. Delta is not one of those.

                      You kind of hung yourself on this one. A not uncommon scenario. Please don't swear at others for pointing out that it was most definitely you (again) giving out extremely incorrect information (again) and then proceeding to be excessively rude and snide to anyone who dare an attempt at correcting your misinformation. (again)

                      Haleigh didn't answer your questions because you didn't have any. You were too busy making pronouncements. (incorrect ones)

                      (again)
                      Gee, I admit that I gave out wrong info, then DW has to keep picking a fight. Now, you get to add to it. Real big of you! Amazing!

                      Comment


                      • I was actually pointing out that this would more than likely be the END of whatever "fight" may have been going on, since enough factual information has come to light. Should have known better.
                        Click here before you buy.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                          I was actually pointing out that this would more than likely be the END of whatever "fight" may have been going on, since enough factual information has come to light. Should have known better.
                          Well, guess it would have been IF you had been a big enough person to see I acknowledged my mistake. But you took the low road! Oh well! That's the internet!

                          Comment


                          • "There has been a lot of wrong information out there" is hardly first person, singular acceptance of one's mistakes and mis-statements. Are you running for office, by any chance?

                            But, the air is clear now. We have all been educated on some of the intricacies of compounding veterinary pharmaceuticals and the law. Myself included. On we go!
                            Click here before you buy.

                            Comment


                            • You just keep poking, I feel sorry if you have neighbors nearby!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Haleigh View Post
                                However, PentAussie is not licensed in the U.S. (yet). It's expensive but it makes the drug much safer. Therefore it is legal to get it compounded. (I guess PentAussie and Wedgewood are having their own legal battles over this same issue).
                                .....
                                Hopefully soon PentAussie will be licensed in the US and compounding the drug won't be an option. Disclaimer: This is my interpretation of the conversation I had with Dr. McIlwraith. Hope this helps out those who are interested in using these products.
                                This is what I wrote in my earlier post, the patent and manufacturing info were straight off the PentAussie box:

                                About whether PentAussie is FDA approved--since it has a US patent and is made in the USA, I assume it is FDA approved as a surgical lavage, but not for the "maintenance" that we are using it for.
                                That's fine, many of us have slid down this slippery slope and became very happy (and broke) doing it. We may not have a retirement, but we have memories ...

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by OTTBs View Post
                                  This is what I wrote in my earlier post, the patent and manufacturing info were straight off the PentAussie box: About whether PentAussie is FDA approved--since it has a US patent and is made in the USA, I assume it is FDA approved as a surgical lavage, but not for the "maintenance" that we are using it for.
                                  From my understanding is it's not licensed or approved as a surgical lavage either (another issue of not having a licensed drug, and it's rarely used that way). Its actually proven to cause inflammation when used in the joint (PentAussie and Pentosan). PentAussie just wants to market it as a device. My impression is that it's horrible within the joints and awesome IV or IM.
                                  Also to clear it up (which I think most of you understand), just because it's not licensed does not mean it's illegal. Its legal to use in the U.S., you just have to find someone who has it. It also means they haven't paid the expensive fee's to assure all of us that what they're putting in their vials is actually what they say it is (obviously this applies to compounded drugs as well).

                                  Comment


                                  • My vet sells me PentAussie for $28.00 a 6mL dose. I have been using it IM every 30 days for a donkey that I show. I have had great results.

                                    Comment


                                    • who makes Pentosan Gold?

                                      Comment

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