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Best fat source for the IR horse?

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  • Best fat source for the IR horse?

    I've been working with my vet on revamping my severely IR pony's diet. He's underweight so I was looking for a safe source of fat (that he'll actually eat!). Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!
    Originally posted by EquineImagined
    My subconscious is a wretched insufferable beotch.

  • #2
    Flaxseed - you can get flaxseed oil, whole seed, or ground and stabilized.
    JB-Infinity Farm
    www.infinitehorses.com

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Thanks spotmenow. I've tried ground flax before but he's not a fan of the powder. Have you ever tried feeding the whole seeds? If he'd eat them I could use that as his "grain". Right now he's getting a handful of Growinwin at feeding time but I'm thinking about eliminating that as well and just feeding a vit/min supplement.
      Originally posted by EquineImagined
      My subconscious is a wretched insufferable beotch.

      Comment


      • #4
        Have you tried something like alfalfa pellets and oil? Or rinsed beet pulp and oil? I don't have direct experience with IR but from what I have heard is often if you get the diet under control from the sugar side it will be easier to put weight on.
        http://community.webshots.com/user/jenn52318

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by whbar158 View Post
          Have you tried something like alfalfa pellets and oil? Or rinsed beet pulp and oil? I don't have direct experience with IR but from what I have heard is often if you get the diet under control from the sugar side it will be easier to put weight on.
          From what I understand oil is too "processed" to use as a fat souce--not that he would eat it anyway--he's quite picky! He's getting a few pounds of alfalfa cubes a day along with a few pounds of timothy balancer cubes. The cubes are soaked and rinsed every time. I'm beginning to think he's one of the ones that can't tolerate the afalfa and have recently eliminated that. He's basically on free choice timothy cubes and a handful of Growinwin twice a day to get his supplements down. May have to eliminate that too. His insulin levels are through the roof! I've been told that adding fat can help with this--hence the need for a safe source. Thanks guys!
          Originally posted by EquineImagined
          My subconscious is a wretched insufferable beotch.

          Comment


          • #6
            Whole roasted soybeans are~ 20% fat. Still some calories come from carbs....but at ~40% crude protein and 20% fat perhaps in moderation they would be of benefit. Omega 6 to 3 ratio is ~6:1. So if he will eat whole flax and some whole roasted soybeans too at least you would be providing severals ounces of high quailty fat and some high quality protein also.

            Always rice bran and BOSS to think about too.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by D Taylor View Post
              Whole roasted soybeans are~ 20% fat. Still some calories come from carbs....but at ~40% crude protein and 20% fat perhaps in moderation they would be of benefit. Omega 6 to 3 ratio is ~6:1. So if he will eat whole flax and some whole roasted soybeans too at least you would be providing severals ounces of high quailty fat and some high quality protein also.

              Always rice bran and BOSS to think about too.
              Soybean hulls look like they might be worth trying. Thanks! Rice bran is way too high in starch for him--he's a metabolic disaster. . Can you buy soybean hulls at the feed store?
              Originally posted by EquineImagined
              My subconscious is a wretched insufferable beotch.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hulls are just going to be a roughage type source for calories. The only way to get calories from fat with out the carbs are going to be oil or a 100% dried oil product like Cool Calories.
                http://community.webshots.com/user/jenn52318

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Herbie19 View Post
                  Soybean hulls look like they might be worth trying. Thanks! Rice bran is way too high in starch for him--he's a metabolic disaster. . Can you buy soybean hulls at the feed store?
                  I can get soy hull pellets at my local mill. And while hulls are good fermentable fiber they are very low in fat. So yes some calories but only about 700-800 per lb.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have a pony that flat out won't touch ground flax seed but happily gulps down whole flax.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Cocosoya oil. The only one my picky horse will eat. It has done wonders for his coat and weight.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by grayarabpony View Post
                        I have a pony that flat out won't touch ground flax seed but happily gulps down whole flax.
                        Good to know! Does anyone know the NSC value for the whole soybeans? I can only seem to find info on the hulls. And since he's not lacking in fiber I guess they won't do. I'll look into cool calories. Keep in suggestions coming--they are very helpful!

                        I'm surprised at the suggestions for the oil--I've always been told not to feed oils to an IR horse.
                        Originally posted by EquineImagined
                        My subconscious is a wretched insufferable beotch.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Oil is pure fat, no carbs at all.

                          If you can get Triple Crown feeds, look at their website. All of the NSC info is there for their products. Very handy.
                          Caitlin
                          *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
                          http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Fat is dangerous for IR horses. Does he have muscle wasting? Most likely he needs protein he can actually use to rebuild it.
                            "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                            ---
                            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I second BOSS. They love it, it is fantastic at putting a bloom on them, high in calories, high in fat, low in carbs, high in fibre. Not messy, easy to measure, easy to obtain.

                              Soybean hulls are a waste product, and my own unscientific opinion is that something about GMO grains are partially or wholly the cause of most IR in both people and animals. Our and their diets are riddled with it. Try finding everyday items at your regular supermarket that do not contain either corn or soy in some form. Personally...I stay far, far away from soy and corn. Off my soapbox!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by JumpinBeans81 View Post
                                I second BOSS. They love it, it is fantastic at putting a bloom on them, high in calories, high in fat, low in carbs, high in fibre. Not messy, easy to measure, easy to obtain.

                                Soybean hulls are a waste product, and my own unscientific opinion is that something about GMO grains are partially or wholly the cause of most IR in both people and animals. Our and their diets are riddled with it. Try finding everyday items at your regular supermarket that do not contain either corn or soy in some form. Personally...I stay far, far away from soy and corn. Off my soapbox!
                                i'm with you, the gmo is seriously scary.
                                have you read wheatbelly? i'm on the wait list at my library for it.

                                plus i'm a big fan of sunny flax myself.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by RedMare01 View Post
                                  Oil is pure fat, no carbs at all.

                                  If you can get Triple Crown feeds, look at their website. All of the NSC info is there for their products. Very handy.
                                  I understand that oil is pure fat, but I've read to avoid feeding oils to IR horses. It doesn't really matter though because he won't eat it. I do have Triple Crown available and have practically memorized that chart! But again, he won't eat their LOW NSC feeds.
                                  Originally posted by EquineImagined
                                  My subconscious is a wretched insufferable beotch.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by EqTrainer View Post
                                    Fat is dangerous for IR horses. Does he have muscle wasting? Most likely he needs protein he can actually use to rebuild it.
                                    This is what I've read too (mostly on holistic sites!), but then I've also read that a certain amount of fat is needed. Like I said before he's getting the Growinwin which is 32% protein, 5% fat and low in sugar and starch. That along with the hay cubes is no fat diet. Hence the need for SOME supplementation.

                                    No more muscle wasting than any other 35 year old pony.

                                    Right now I'm leaning toward the whole flax seed.
                                    Originally posted by EquineImagined
                                    My subconscious is a wretched insufferable beotch.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Here is the link to the whole roasted soybeans I purchase...
                                      http://www.nbisoybean.com/roastedsoybeansanalysis.html

                                      However this faciltiy is now out of production and up for sale. Only the beans left in storage remain. I have since ferreted out another supplier whose test info is much the same.

                                      Neither of these sources provides NSC info.

                                      But if I recall correctly 15-17%. However search the database for Equi-analytical and google for some others. My computer crashed not that long ago and I have yet to get all my bookmarks updated.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Herbie19 View Post
                                        Thanks spotmenow. I've tried ground flax before but he's not a fan of the powder. Have you ever tried feeding the whole seeds? If he'd eat them I could use that as his "grain". Right now he's getting a handful of Growinwin at feeding time but I'm thinking about eliminating that as well and just feeding a vit/min supplement.
                                        I feed the whole seeds to all my horses and the ground to the 30 year old mare that I board (she can't chew all that great anymore). I can't comment on how palatable any of them are because my horses are all draft crosses who will eat ANYTHING.

                                        Careful with a lot of the oils/fat supplements out there...most have fillers/additional ingredients that are not good for IR horses. Even some of the flaxseed/rice bran oils aren't 100% pure and are mixed with other products.
                                        JB-Infinity Farm
                                        www.infinitehorses.com

                                        Comment

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