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Some insight on this filly please... Updated again with films added post #67!

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  • Some insight on this filly please... Updated again with films added post #67!

    This is a crosspost not my horse... This video is pretty long, but you can see the problem early on:


    What do you all see? This little girl is in Poland and her owner is concerned she may have wobblers. It doesn't seem to present as wobblers to me. I've very curious about this. Here is his post:

    We have AQH mare birthed at the begining of April 2011. At the end of November I have spotted that it has problem with a rear legs. And now I am worry that this could be a wobbler syndrome. What do You think? There is no soreness in the area of ​​the spine. As You can seen on the film- it could be easily spotted when it is moving back.During a gallop it pushes the leg out. Our vet don't have idea what it can be. He said that maybe it growing too fast and we should give it more vitamins.

    In another post he explains:

    Thank you for yours replys. Vet was in the stable. Unfortunatelly he said that he isn't able to make radiological examine of lower back, he can only examine the upper part of spine. He says that in Poland there are no technical conditions to carry out such a study.
    Last edited by BoyleHeightsKid; Jan. 23, 2012, 08:36 AM.
    Boyle Heights Kid 1998 16.1h OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
    Tinner's Way x Sculpture by Hail to Reason
    "Once you go off track, you never go back!"

  • #2
    I dont think ive ever seen anything like it, but my first thought was neuro.
    Charlie Brown (1994 bay TB X gelding)
    White Star (2004 grey TB gelding)

    Mystical Moment, 1977-2010.


    • #3
      My guess is stifle OCD and resultant pain.
      Patty Stiller CNBBT,CNBF,CLS, CE
      Natural Balance Certified Lameness Specialist ,instructor.


      • #4
        Nice Filly,
        I would guess that at 7 months old showing these signs and being in the condition she is in. She is growing too fast and has pain in the hip area and possibly the joints below.
        Looks as if the feed is being poured into this baby and muscle has outgrown the structure too quickly. JMO

        What is the breed?
        Charlie Piccione
        Natural Performance Hoof Care


        • #5
          Another vote for OCD.
          Patience pays.


          • #6
            Originally posted by Patty Stiller View Post
            My guess is stifle OCD and resultant pain.
            This is also what I was thinking.

            Also thought she is a bit heavy for my liking.

            Edited to say that I didn't watch the whole video only bits and pieces.
            Last edited by Beethoven; Jan. 6, 2012, 09:35 AM.
            I love cats, I love every single cat....
            So anyway I am a cat lover
            And I love to run.


            • #7
              It looks more pain mediated than neurological to me in the beginning ,but if you stick with it, no doubt it's neurological. There appears to be a definite lameness, too.
              After going back and watching more of the free pasture video I see some weakness/weirdness in the front limbs as well, especially right front. It doesn't help that the right front is offset and varus through the knee, that both front fetlocks are varus or that she's generously fed and toes in on both fronts. She's a crooked little thing all the way around.

              When the in hand portion of the video starts there's a much more neurologic look to it all. She toe stubbing up front, swinging the hinds, but it still looks painful at times, too. Makes me wonder about the neck, but I'm thinking more neck injury than a true wobbler. Her front end is actually a complete mess. The more I watch of the in hand portion, the more neurologically FUBAR she appears to be. Her stride is uneven, choppy, there's a lack of tone from the knee down especially. I'd love to see him back her.
              Okay, we finally had a little backing at the very end, but you couldn't see what she did with her head and neck. At least she was able to back in a fairly normal fashion. Have they tried confining her for a time? Can they x-ray the neck? The LAST thing I'm thinking is OCD in the stifles or anywhere else. There is a disconnect somewhere along the spinal cord for sure.
              "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen


              • #8
                I would also suspect a neck/ spinal injury....
                Making Your Ambitions a Reality at Secret Ambition Stables.
                Quality Welsh Ponies and Welsh Crosses bred for sport
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                Section A and Section B Welsh Ponies at stud


                • #9
                  Very interesting how her right side tends to move in one motion more so than the left. Something is not right that is for sure, and I agree as the video goes on it looks more neurological versus one problem area. The way she throws out her front legs (esp the right) and swings her hinds as well. I have very little experience with wobblers or spinal injury. I do know a foal that was put down around that age due to wobblers or a spinal injury I am not sure if they ever decided. He didn't like to lift his head very high either, and was pretty unsteady on his feet, it was actually kinda scary to watch, but he moved his legs in the same way, but was much worse.


                  • Original Poster

                    CP she is a quarterhorse. I was also thinking stifles/stifle pain or that she's being fed to well and growing too fast.

                    Thank you for all your replies... I gave the link of this thread to the owner so maybe he will chime in.
                    Boyle Heights Kid 1998 16.1h OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
                    Tinner's Way x Sculpture by Hail to Reason
                    "Once you go off track, you never go back!"


                    • #11
                      If this filly were mine, I would start with the right hock and hip and a good trim.
                      The hock joint looks bigger on the right and the muscle looks smaller. This is the only hoof that is worn heavily on the lateral side as compared to the rest.

                      She needs a trim also. JMO
                      Charlie Piccione
                      Natural Performance Hoof Care


                      • #12
                        There is so much more going on here than a trim can address. The waY she slaps and stubs her feet into the ground they'll all wear unevenly. I promise you that rapid growth is the least of her concerns.
                        "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen


                        • #13
                          agree with everyone who has said stifle/hip. looks like there is some stiffness/pain/tightness in that area. ive dealt personally with neuro disorders in the hind end and this doesnt look like that to me. Id do radiographs and ultrasounds of the hips and stifles and go from there. if her diet is too rich, there could be a multitude of problems. it almost looks like whatever legament/tendon from hock up to stifle is really tight and she cannot stretch it out.


                          • Original Poster

                            Jackie I wonder if what you're seeing in the front end could be caused by compensating so much for what's going on behind. When you see her canter around she doesn't seem to have trouble swithing leads, there's no stumbling etc.

                            eta: I see the toe stabbing but she could be sore upfront from compensating? She's got upright pasturns which would comtribute to the toe stabbing.
                            Last edited by BoyleHeightsKid; Jan. 6, 2012, 11:35 AM.
                            Boyle Heights Kid 1998 16.1h OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
                            Tinner's Way x Sculpture by Hail to Reason
                            "Once you go off track, you never go back!"


                            • #15
                              Sadly, no. She doesn't seem to know wher her front legs are from the knee down especially. She just flings her leg out without much fine motor control. Strangely enough, they always look better when moving faster when the deficits are still mild.
                              The way the hinds pop out stiff-legged to the side when she's turned in hand is absolutely classic for neurologic issue of some sort. That's not to say that she isn't sore as well, but there is definitely brain or spinal cord involvement here in some shape or form.
                              Maybe a stupid question, but have they temped her recently? Is her behavior normal otherwise?
                              Last edited by JackieBlue; Jan. 6, 2012, 12:06 PM. Reason: spelling
                              "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen


                              • #16
                                I don't think she looks all the heavy, nor does she look like she is growing that fast to me, she just isn't that big. I agree there could be some other stuff going on, but she really seems unsure where her feet are.


                                • #17
                                  I would be concerned about hock neck or spinal cord, could be a big OCD chip or even fracture in the hock or stifle. Are there no vet clinics in Polland? What if you just radiographed his whole body? Tradition radiographs would not be as good, but it could probably be done possibly lying the horse down. I would think you could radiograph the neck?

                                  So sorry your friend is going through this!
                                  Last edited by Fharoah; Jan. 6, 2012, 03:58 PM.


                                  • #18
                                    I have no experience with neck or spinal injuries or neuro disorders. But it looks a lot like something that my gelding was doing last winter. He was kicked in the hindquarters, and had pretty significant muscle damage. The way she picked up her hind foot the first time(at 15:47 in the video), kind of sticking it out behind her first is exactly what he did when I picked up his leg. It could be a muscle issue high up.


                                    • #19
                                      I think she has problems front and back. The front end stuff does not look to be compensation for the hind end, I agree with the poster who says it looks like she can't feel her lower legs. She also has such a bad deviation in the front right that you do have to wonder if there are nutritional issues (mineral imbalance?) and/or if the dam has similar crookedness.

                                      I have seen horses with serious deviation in their front legs and that do not move anything like that filly is moving.

                                      I think she either has a neck injury (if this was acute) or wobblers ot other neruo issue. Is there EPM in Poland? The vet doesn't need an x-ray machine to tell if it is pain related lameness vs neuro.


                                      • #20
                                        I haven't watched it all, but has he tried the classic neuro tests of putting her foot down tipped under to see how fast she rights it? On all four feet? Pulling her side to side with her tail to see if she is able to brace against the pull? Tight circles to see if she can step under and across smoothly?
                                        "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp