• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Should I be unhappy with my farrier for this?

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Should I be unhappy with my farrier for this?

    brief history.. moved barns in October. Old farrier is technically retired so I used this opportunity to go back to a farrier I used a few years ago.

    I like his shoeing job he does on my horse. That's not the problem. Last shoeing, I couldn't make it to the barn to be there. No worries, BO brought my horse in and farrier shod him. But he put snow pads and studs on without me asking him to do it. To the tune of an extra $60 (putting my bill with tax over $250.00). I have never put snow pads on my guy, even last year when he was in aluminum (now in steel). AND we have no snow yet. Not even a dusting. So i guess i am peeved because he didn't even text me or call to ask if I wanted them on.

    I paid him the base bill of $180 before he sent me the bill in the mail, so I guess i owe him about $60. Still kind of bent because we (a) still don't have snow and (b) he didn't ask if I wanted the extras.

    Would you be miffed too? Should i just suck it up and deal with it?

  • #2
    Have you asked him why he put the pads and studs on? Did you ask the BO? Sounds like there was a big miscommunication here.


    • #3
      I don't think farrier should do anything different w/o consulting you and unless BO asked him to put the snow pads and studs on I would not pay. (is it possible BO did this possibly confusing it with another client's horse?)

      If not BO then I would just call farrier and advise you did not want the pads/studs and you are not going to pay for it, in a kind and friendly way. At very least let him know you did not want this and are peeved about the extra cost.


      • #4
        Just TALK TO HIM. It may have been a simple mistake or communication error. Barn Owner might have said something to him, or somebody told him to put the extras on a different horse and he made a mistake. I would talk to him on the phone before I would get mad about it on a public message board.


        • #5
          I'd ask the BO and then the farrier, in that order, what the deal was with the pads. Could be either the farrier asked the BO and BO authorized, or BO asked for them straight out, or farrier just assumed. Any of these would get a different reaction from me. Also depends on the type of barn you are in now. Does the BO normally make decisions for his/her boarders?
          COTH's official mini-donk enabler

          "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl


          • #6
            I'd be miffed.

            Another question though - I've never heard of anyone paying tax on shoeing - is this common?


            • #7
              Originally posted by Kate66 View Post
              Another question though - I've never heard of anyone paying tax on shoeing - is this common?
              Yes. The farrier has to pay the IRS so they have to charge tax to their customers. Some of them build it into the cost of services, and some add the tax on top.

              You have probably used farriers who didn't tell you they were charging tax, but just built it into the cost of their services so you didn't know any different.


              • #8
                Originally posted by Auventera Two View Post
                Yes. The farrier has to pay the IRS so they have to charge tax to their customers. Some of them build it into the cost of services, and some add the tax on top.

                You have probably used farriers who didn't tell you they were charging tax, but just built it into the cost of their services so you didn't know any different.
                It is less likely him adding in his income tax, but more likely that he is in one of the many states that requires a sales tax be collected on services, and he is running an honest, above the table business.

                If he was adding in his income taxes to the IRS in on top, it would likely be a 30% addition, because then his income would be even higher and so he'd be paying income taxes on the income taxes he had been attempting to collect.


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SaddleFitterVA View Post
                  It is less likely him adding in his income tax, but more likely that he is in one of the many states that requires a sales tax be collected on services, and he is running an honest, above the table business.
                  It is most likely sales tax although I was not aware that services were taxable in any states. I'm certainly not up on those laws in every state so that may well be the case.

                  I agree that you should call him and ask him why he put the snow pads on. It is most likely a mistake or mixed communication.


                  • #10
                    Depends on state laws. In NC, services are not taxable so my farrier could not charge me a sales tax--they don't have that to report and turn in. I don't see how one could legally charge a "tax" if there is no law that requires it to be collected. The separate tax as an income tax makes no sense as it is dependent on annual income, etc. So in this case either the farrier is doing things correctly as he is in a state that requires sales tax on services or he is wrongfully collecting it.

                    As for the original topic, just pick up the phone. I mean really. It makes no since to get all upset over something without knowing the details and where the communication broke down.
                    Last edited by ponysize; Jan. 4, 2012, 12:28 PM. Reason: .


                    • #11
                      Communicate before you get yourself upset.

                      Call the barn owner and ask if there was a discussion about it.
                      Then call the farrier and discuss it.

                      Curious, when you used this farrier before, did you tend to put snow pads on your horse?

                      I would guess the tax mentioned is sales tax.


                      • #12
                        I'd ask him and the BO to figure out what happened. We've had similar stuff happen at our barn when the owner wasn't clear about what they wanted or somebody got confused. The guy isn't a mind reader -- just ask him what happened. Maybe the BO said everybody needs snow pads or something, meaning a certain group of horses and yours got included. I would have thought that the farrier would have seen the check you left and figured out you just wanted the basic shoeing, but I'd still make some inquiries to see what happened.


                        • #13
                          Why waste valuable energy and thinking on what may be just a simple misunderstanding? TALK ... with your farrier. Ask him why he put on the studs and pads since you never requested them. As was mentioned, perhaps the BO said something to lead him to believe that you wanted them. Be positive about it rather than allowing all that negative stuff to build up and cause *you* to feel badly. It just takes away from all the 'good stuff' and life is short enough as it is to be piling up and carrying all sorts of nasty stuff around w/you.
                          --Gwen <><
                          "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."


                          • #14
                            IMO the answer to this question probably depends on whether or not you intend to retain the services of your farrier.
                            "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.


                            • #15
                              In all the years I have been in this, I only twice had a farrier do anything extra when I was not there and that was because the BO either asked directly for it or gave the impression I wanted it.

                              There was no problem adjusting the charges however I did pay for the materials used for the pour in pads-I refused to pay the extra 15 for a drill and tap-on a 3' Hunter- in the other case.

                              Since you were not there and you had not recently used this farrier, I don't necessarily think you got screwed.

                              Talk to them both and see what happened. Make your wishes clear to both and don't assume they know what you want or don't want.

                              I'd probably pay for it this time, the farrier did the work and provided the materials out of pocket so thought that is what you wanted. Just make sure you are clear in the future.

                              Better yet, try to be there.
                              When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                              The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


                              • #16
                                He probably did what is best for the horse.
                                You say you just moved there, studs are good for ice. It is cold out and maybe around the barn it gets icey? They do better in studs, for the horse's safety.
                                Pay and Pray we get ice and snow, then the cost was well worth it.
                                Charlie Piccione
                                Natural Performance Hoof Care


                                • #17
                                  The local Hunt horses had their studs and snow rim pads on around the end of Oct. Been shod again since then, with almost NO snow to require their snow rim pad use. The only bad snow was on non-Hunt days! Ice studs are
                                  always helpful, horse had traction wherever he goes.

                                  However last year, we got frozen ground in Oct. with snow, heavy, cold, stayed on the ground from Thanksgiving until Feb. Used those studs and snow rim pads on a daily basis so the horses had no slipping injuries, snowball effect ridden or in the pasture. Worth the money.

                                  You have your horse shod to be prepared for any weather with studs and snow rim pads or take your chances of him getting hurt in turnout if weather sneaks up on you. No one ever REALLY knows what you will get in winter, you go with past experience. Some folks here wrote about injured equines with slips and falls, some hurt badly enough to put down, from no traction on bad ground last winter. This is always a possibility with no studs in shoes, weather surprises.

                                  You evidently didn't make your wishes clear to either BO or Farrier, so they made the decision. Pay up to keep relations going well with the Farrier, and as everyone else said, TALK to both of them to make your wishes CLEAR in shoeing wants for that horse.


                                  • #18
                                    I would also definitely talk to him. My guess is that either the BO told him to, or pretty much all the other horses were getting them so without explicit "don't put snow pads on this horse" instructions he just assumed your horse got the same thing. Remember, a farrier works on a lot of horses and a lot of them do kind of blur together after awhile until they've been clients for awhile. Depending on the size of your barn, he might not have even realized in the moment that it was a new horse. Also, if you plan on putting snow pads on at all this winter, something might have gotten lost in communication there.

                                    So in other words, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and not get mad about it. I would talk to him (politely!) about it though. Some owners are okay with their farrier just using his or her discretion without consulting the owner, but most do want to be consulted before something major is changed and it won't hurt to make it clear to him (again, nicely) that you fall into the latter category.
                                    exploring the relationship between horse and human


                                    • #19
                                      I would ask the BO if it was discused between them and the farrier and if BO is te one who requested wanted the pads etc. If so, in my opinion the BO should pay the extra since you did not request it. i
                                      If it turns out it was it was not discussed and the farrier just did it, then thefarrier should eat it. It is his mistake to not get agreement from you first, and he wont do it again.
                                      As to sales tax on materials it varies from state to state and also on how the farrier has te business set up. Some do it that way, charging materials seperately, but many(most) do not, and just include materials as "supplies".
                                      Patty Stiller CNBBT,CNBF,CLS, CE
                                      Natural Balance Certified Lameness Specialist ,instructor.


                                      • #20
                                        PS I always ask horse owners this time of year if they want snow pads, and suggest it if I feel it is needed. but I never just put them on without permission.
                                        If they want to chop snowballs out of the feet that is their decision after I educate them on the options. I may occasionaly put in a couple of tungsten tipped nails in a particular icy barn, but I don't charge extra for it if it was not requested first.
                                        I then inform the owner that it was done and ask them to let me know how it worked and if they want them the next time. (they usually do agree it was a good idea and willingly pay the extra to have it done the next time )
                                        Patty Stiller CNBBT,CNBF,CLS, CE
                                        Natural Balance Certified Lameness Specialist ,instructor.