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something to kill adult Onchocerca? 19 CASE STUDIES POSTED-PAGE 58

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  • Yep - do a FEC 12 weeks after this next ivermectin and see what's what. If you have clean FECs from the past then you could even wait. If you DD on 11/1 (for example), then 12 weeks is about Feb 1, and there's no harm waiting for March 1 to do a FEC.

    If you think you're going to have to start the DD protocol again, then do the Quest Plus closer to March 1, rather than Apr 1. You really want to wait at close to at least 12 weeks after QP as you can, before using anything else. But an Apr1 time puts you at July 1 for "anything else", and by that time you might be desperate for the DD again. I don't think anyone can say when you have to DD because it's going to depend on the horse, the year, what sort of real issue the horse has with adult NTWs (who are the ones producing the irritating juvies), etc.
    I would absolutely not DD as prevention unless and until you KNOW, based on at least a few years prior history, that he reliably starts to have trouble by X time of year, or by X environmental conditions (ie heat and humidity).
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

    Comment


    • Perfect! I think July 1 might be cutting it close for this horse so I'm going to aim for March 1st with the Quest Plus and go from there.

      Thanks so much!

      Comment


      • Bump for Dune

        Comment


        • Originally posted by csaper58 View Post
          Bump for Dune
          Thanks but I've already been through this with my little guy. ;-) It's not worms, this didn't help him in the slightest. :-(

          Comment


          • https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...2&l=0723241b86

            https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...4&l=99259e0dcd

            Do these nodules look like what you all are also dealing with? My stallion has had these for a number of years. They always show up in an old scar he has which is right underneath the flap of the saddle. He does get swellings later in summer in front of umbilical cord, on either side of his testicles, and also along his midline. The thing is the ones in his old scar are VERY VERY painful just to light touch. He had surgery there because a vet thought it was nerve entrapment, another biopsied it and said fly allergies but here is the thing: I wormed him almost two weeks ago with Equimax, a week in his fetlocks swelled on all four feet, strange then these popped back up up again, dormant all winter. Be interested to see if these look like what the rest of you are dealing with.

            Comment


            • Okay. All has gone well with my mare until now (Autumn in Australia, Fall in US). She is worse now than the whole of the Summer season

              I've been following the protocol all through the warmer months and now the itch is worse ...

              Has anyone else had this happen?

              Comment


              • anyone herbal worming?

                Adopted a QH Mare, 8 years old. Pretty neglected, underweight and pretty sure she wasn't wormed regularly. Received her with a bald itchy face, scabs. One vet said it was eczema another said sunburn (well duh) but why the bald face? Started with mtg..cleared scabs but not hair regrowth and when I stopped mtg face would get bad again. Switched from mtg to neem oil, vitamin E. Helps but still same problem..the moment I stop treatment the face becomes dry, scabs, peeling and itchy.
                Research brings me to this condition. Administerd the inv DD, 3 days into she developed bumps on chest and neck. The only place on her that shows signs of anything has been her face. Not the tail, withers..maybe a little itch on the belly and neck..but no other hairloss.
                So the bumps and severe itching after the DD tells me that she's reacting like most of the other horses with this problem. One week later single dose. I'm still seeing bumps..but not as many on her chest but sine along her neck and down her side. Still very itchy face.
                She gets a scoop of probiotic 2, times a day along with herbal worming, 1/2 cup of DE, 2 tablespoons if garlic powder in her feed.

                She keeps a fly mask on 24/7. Bought a fly sheet but rubbed her chest raw so taking it back and ordering something different. She's sprayed down with vinegar, skin so soft, Listerine mixture two times a day.

                http://

                http://

                Comment


                • It looks like you accidentally uncovered a NTW infestation while trying to treat the condition on the mare's face. Most horses with NTW do not present symptoms unless they are allergic to the larvae waste, thus the bumps. Apparently, IMO t he DD ivermectin started killing the larvae and created the presentation of NTW symptoms after the fact. The bumps and chest/neck itching will start to diminish with continued treatment.

                  I don't think the problem on her face is NTW related. In fact, it looks very much like mange. That is usually accompanied by crusty or oozing sores though. Microscopic examination of facial hair should reveal the presence of mites if that's what it is. Until you know for sure, keep her isolated, wash your hands and do not share any grooming supplies with other animals. You might try gentle application of Absorbine Jr. or hydrocortizone ointment on her face to relieve some of the itching. Be careful not to get it in her eyes. ~FH
                  "Anything done in anger is abuse. Proper correction and reprimand are done in silence with thoughtful intent. Your horse knows the difference." ~FH

                  Comment


                  • sweet itch /NTW ???

                    i dealt with what i believed was a case of NTW last year, and treated the rest of my herd Sadly my old guy was blind - a side effect and he was PTS. but that is history now.

                    My mini shetland has suddenly presented with itchyness. Initially in mane and tail, so thought it was sweet itch. I do live in France (West). but over the last week he has now got bald patches all down his neck and under his gullett.

                    I have already wormed with double does of ivermectin, which i know kills the microfilea. and i believed that the adults could not be killed. This would seem to be not the case as double dose of Equimax will kill adults?? can someone clarify. he is in isolation as i had considered mange too. i have tried all sorts of creams and potions, mainly to do with sweet itch, and just plain old sudocreme, which is brilliant for most skin complaints. i have now given him another good bath with a salycyclic acid cleansing shampoo, in case it is a ringworm thing although i doubt it. i will not be putting anymore creams on for the moment. He was also on tumeric which i have now stopped too.

                    My question is if i have double dosed ivermectin, and am due to do it again in 2 weeks. can i really then double dose with equimax followed by another dose 2 weeks later??

                    Also he is normally in really good condition, but after a bad attack of laminitus a few years ago, (due to hay in the winter) he has been on very restricted grazing, but not left hungry. could it be that he has lost weight and despite looking fab, is he himself lacking in something which has resulted in a reaction to the migrating microfilea and their waste products?? he does get some multi vitamin/minerals twice a day.

                    sorry i have thrown quite a bit in here, for general information for others, which i hope will help others if i get some answers back too. these NTW are horrible, and to be honest, although i never had it confirmed, i know i was right. but what is worrying is that none of my English friends here in france have ever heard of it or even consider treating for it as a preventative measure, some just prefer to just keep treating for sweet itch.

                    Thanks in advance for any replies forthcoming, and can we post pics on here??

                    Comment


                    • Note for an admin, could we not add pics here, because for the NTW it would be really helpful. thank you

                      Comment


                      • You need to become a Premium member to inbed the picture in the thread.
                        Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                        Comment


                        • FH,
                          Thanks fir your input. Why do you think her face isn't related to NTW? Would mange effect her white hair only? What it's the treatment, if you're aware of it? Thanks!

                          Originally posted by FloridaHorseman View Post
                          It looks like you accidentally uncovered a NTW infestation while trying to treat the condition on the mare's face. Most horses with NTW do not present symptoms unless they are allergic to the larvae waste, thus the bumps. Apparently, IMO t he DD ivermectin started killing the larvae and created the presentation of NTW symptoms after the fact. The bumps and chest/neck itching will start to diminish with continued treatment.

                          I don't think the problem on her face is NTW related. In fact, it looks very much like mange. That is usually accompanied by crusty or oozing sores though. Microscopic examination of facial hair should reveal the presence of mites if that's what it is. Until you know for sure, keep her isolated, wash your hands and do not share any grooming supplies with other animals. You might try gentle application of Absorbine Jr. or hydrocortizone ointment on her face to relieve some of the itching. Be careful not to get it in her eyes. ~FH

                          Comment


                          • NTW eruptions usually only present around the neck, shoulders and chest. The face has literally no substantial tissue between the skin surface and the skull to support any kind of burrowing parasite population, so that would suggest whatever is occurring on the face is topical. The only real possibilities are parasitic mange or bacterial rain rot. Both are treated differently. Tell your vets to stop guessing and do a skin scraping to isolate the cause to one or the other and then treat accordingly.~FH
                            "Anything done in anger is abuse. Proper correction and reprimand are done in silence with thoughtful intent. Your horse knows the difference." ~FH

                            Comment


                            • I had asked my vet about NTW being the cause of my old pony's itchiness, and the vet didn't seem to be familiar with this parasite. My pony is very itchy along her neck and shoulders, to the point of rubbing her mane out. There's also part of her neck that has a bit of a crest to it, but the rest of her neck is ok.

                              Her last deworming was on 6/8 with Quest (not Quest Plus). Before that, she received a single dose of Equimax on 11/4/13. When would it be safe to give her a DD of Equimax.

                              She is IR and had a laminitic episode in April. Would it be better to start with a DD of Ivermectin? She got very itchy for a few days after the Quest.

                              My minis are also itchy, but not as bad as my pony. They're 4 & 5 years old and don't have any health conditions. Their last deworming was 11/4/13 with a single dose of Equimax. Midges, gnats and flies are a huge problem here in Maine, and my horses always seem to get itchy when the bugs are out. My pony is itchy year round, but she's much, much worse at this time of year.

                              None of the vets I've spoken to about NTW seem to be knowledgeable. One vet would prefer I just treat based on decals, while the other is ok with the idea of DD Equimax or Ivermectin.

                              Would starting with a DD of Ivermectin be gentler than a DD of Equimax?

                              Comment


                              • Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I acquired an aged (26)underweight mare in June. I power packed her first hoping to help her gain weight. Didn't get any significant boost. Then the itch plagued her, completely stopping any weight gain. I just completed the second double dose of Equimax. I noticed results after the first 2X dose. It was amazing.
                                Is the Equimax double dosing 2X a one time treatment?
                                When should I repeat the Equimax double dose protocol ?
                                Would you recommend that I power pack her again in November? I just did it in June.
                                Thank you for helping this dear old mare

                                Comment


                                • Whether you decide to do a 3rd depends on how much of an issue she's still having. Depending on where you are, the weather might make a 3rd unnecessary.

                                  Whether the DD protocol is a one-time treatment depends on the horse. As she gets healthier, she may be able to deal with the issue on her own next Summer. You'll just have to wait and see.

                                  I would not PP her again. The one you did did at least an ok job of killing encysted strongyles. Maybe not great, depending on resistance (which is why I wouldn't do it again), but probably good enough. The Equimax treatments will be taking care of any of the encysteds that are emerging and becoming adults.

                                  I would do a FEC 12 weeks after the last Equimax (whether it's the 2nd one you just did, or a 3rd one). See what the result is. If she's well under 200, then do a FEC in late "Winter". I put that in quotes because it's more temperature-dependent than calendar in terms of when parasites become active. Here in NC, "late Winter" is early-mid March or so, pretty much on the calendar. The more South, the earlier, and the more North, the later.

                                  Assuming she's in good weight by then, and good health, and not heavily infected, I'd use Quest Plus, after the FEC (you always want to know the results before you deworm), and then check her again 16 weeks later.
                                  ______________________________
                                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                  Comment


                                  • Further to my post in june, i am pleased to say that my mini is all better now. the double dose of seemed to have worked, and he quickly grew back a healthy coat. midges are still about, but no scratching anymore. so convinced it was perishable NTW's.

                                    Comment


                                    • Just remember - all you did was kill the juveniles The adults are still there, waiting to make more babies So, don't be surprised if he has issues again next year. Midges might still be here, but are less of an issue this time of year (unless you're in the deep South somewhere) and may not be aggravating the problem.
                                      ______________________________
                                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                      Comment


                                      • Not sure anyone reads this thread anymore - I am in N. California and it is practically late Spring like conditions here (drought). My horse is having sweet itch issues with the open sores on his belly. I double dosed him with Equimax on March 12 - he got very itchy and now has open sores on his belly, legs and even under his jowls. I am going to do the second double dose tomorrow - can't wait another couple days - is that ok? or is it too early in the parasite life cycle? Thanks - poor horse, this is GROSS!!!

                                        Comment


                                        • Quite honestly, what you describe does not sound like NTW. But the 2X Equimax will not hurt. Have you had a vet exam? While it's true many vets are still in the dark about NTW you should still get a professional to look at your horse first to make certain you are not delaying needed medication for something entirely unrelated to NTW. ~IH (Formerly FloridaHorseman.)

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