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something to kill adult Onchocerca? 19 CASE STUDIES POSTED-PAGE 58

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  • I had excellent results with this protocol. Then the cold weather set in. We'll see how it goes when it gets warm and buggy again (this is FL it will be any day now).

    My most notable success was my mare's eye. She had an "unknown immune response not uveitis" according to the opthalmologists at UF. It cleared up after the first DD.

    Has anyone reported any negative side effects double dosing with Equimax. I'm hearing a lot of concern about it on any lists this subject comes up on. People swearing their vets and the people working for pfizer are advising against using Equimax this way.

    I'm not going to stop because I did five horses several time first using Equimax then following up with Ivermectin and haven't had any negative side effects.

    Just curious about any reports to the contrary.

    Comment


    • UnderTheSun, one horse on this thread died after some # of doses of this protocol. However, there were most likely other things going on that were the root of the horse's death. IIRC, this protocol was sort of a "last resort" to see if things could clear up. Try reading from about page 45 on, as I think you'll find it there. Then you can go back through the thread, if you want, and look for ALL the posts about that particular horse.
      ______________________________
      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

      Comment


      • Here's what was found in MsSteno's horse...
        http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum...d.php?t=188624

        So glad it was something relatively easy, rather than pigeon fever or worse.

        Comment


        • Interesting about Gus and double dosing for ERU. I think he's in the mist of a flareup, brought about by the double dose of Equimax. So, maybe it's working? He's due at the end of the week for the next dose (going to use just Ivermectin this time). I need to get more meds (eye meds), but it'll be interesting to see how things go, after next week.

          That's our little update. I'm hoping that means things are working .
          Proud owner of Gus & Gringo.
          See G2's blog
          Photos

          Comment


          • I appologize for the lengthy post. Here it goes:

            I purchased a new horse a approx. 3 weeks ago. A generally well cared for great jumper but with skin that is far from great. I choose to overlook the skin condition to get this jumper at a great price.

            His coat is full of bear scabby patches that vary in size from 1/4 inch to several inches in diameter. When he is groomed a LOT of dundruff like stuff is present. The patches do not seem to be particularly itchy. According to the previous owner he's been batteling this skin condition for some time. They are present everywhere but seem to be mostly concentrated around the neck area, underside of the jaw, forehead, along the spine and his sides and I think it may even be forming on his lower fron legs.

            I have a copy of his vet records and it looks like he was treated for this condition with daily Fulvicin powder, Para-Guard Shampoo and Rompun over the course of about 3 weeks and 2 different vet visits. This was in August 2008.

            The previous owner started adding oil to his diet to help with his skin.

            I've put this horse on MSM and Farriers Formula to help with his coat and skin and used Absorbine 1.00% chloroxylenol shampoo followed by 0.50% chloroxylenol spray for a week. This resulted in the dissapearing of the scabs. The bear hairless patches are still there. I've not treated the condition for over a week now and don't see much improvement. Some patches seem to have started to regrow hair but other scally scabby patches have started in different places.

            So, yesterday I have started to treat the patches again with Absorbine 0.50% chloroxylenol spray thinking that I didn't get it all. I have also started to wash all of his blankets and brushes to prevent reinfection, if that is what is going on.

            But this thread has me thinking it may well be a parasite like NTW and not rainrot or ringworm. I suppose it can't hurt to double dose this horse by weight with Equimax followed again 2 weeks later. Like to have all of your inputs! What do you think is going on?
            Last edited by HookedOnReefing; Feb. 26, 2009, 10:09 AM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by HookedOnReefing View Post
              But this thread has me thinking it may well be a parasite like NTW and not rainrot or ringworm. Like to have all of your inputs!
              So long as he's otherwise healthy - why not give it a try? You'll know within a few days if it is NTW because the horse's skin will get worse before it gets better.

              I was a little skeptical and leery at first, so I started with double dose ivermectin. Then I did the double dose Equimax 2 weeks later. Noticed more eruptions right away and eventual improvement.

              Comment


              • I also say do it!

                My guy didnt present like most. He was very irritable and itchy all over. No real scabs to speak off - just a little crust on his belly. No hair loss like some of the pics in this thread. But he had them - I mean - *has* them. So when is is itching to get out of the pasture (pun intended) to get to his tree to rub and scratch - we deworm. And then he is better.

                Comment


                • SPRING '09 BUMP

                  Although it's still February, spring is on the way. For some of us, warm weather has already started to emerge and, along with it, the NTW microfila are emerging and the itching has started.

                  If you've gone through the Double Dose Protocol since this thread started, then just do one single Double Dose treatment of Equimax as soon as you see the itchies start.

                  If you're new to the thread but suspect that your horse's itchies might be NTW related, then just go and buy yourself multiple tubes of Equimax now, go back to the beginning of the thread and read your way through. It's worth the time investment.

                  Also, since we KNOW that several online suppliers experience a shortage of Equimax in mid-2008 - order now!
                  <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

                  Comment


                  • I think I read in one of The Horse magazine's series on parasites that Iver/Moxi "sterilizes" the female Onchocerca. (or maybe it was somewhere else...?) I haven't seen that mentioned elsewhere. If that's true, for how long?

                    Also, I am interested in the minimal worming protocol proposed in the last of the series (http://www.thehorse.com/Parasites/Parasites1204.pdf). For example, I wormed with Moxi/Praz Dec. 1. I had my vet do a FEC a few days ago, count is zero for everyone. But then I have a small closed herd, and I'm a bit, um, anal about keeping horses and manure apart. According to this article, theoretically I should be able to run another FEC in April and if that's clear, not worry about worming again until September. Not sure I would do that... but if I can by with no more than 4 wormings a year with periodic FEC checks, I think I'd rather.

                    Anyone else thinking of going this route or is/have some experience with it? BTW, I'm in KY if that helps. And yes, I've talked to my vet, he's a bit old school, but he's coming around to the strategic worming band-wagon. So I'd appreciate some "real-life" feedback. Thanks!

                    Comment


                    • Just remember Ginger: NTWs do not show in a fecal because they don't live there. They reside in soft tissue, joints and ligaments.

                      I use Quest and Quest Plus, too, as part of my rotation - yet here in the South AKA Parasite Heaven/Land of the Gnat, my horses still get the itchi/scaly/scruffies because of the NTW microfilia emerging. When they show their nastiness, I doa DD of Equimax right away. Then resume my normal deworming rotation program.
                      <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

                      Comment


                      • ChocoMare, I know that, from reading (some of) this thread. Frankly, I don't think NTWs are a major problem for my ponies, I certainly haven't noticed the issues that others have posted. But since I do use Iver/Moxi, perhaps I am controlling them adequately?

                        My questions are: (i) do Iver/Moxi sterilize female Onch, and if so, for how long; and (ii) are others using the strategic deworming protocol with success?

                        KY is hot in summer, but not as hot as GA, so I don't know how our climate affects the decision of when/when not to worm. I'd like to worm March/June/Sept/Dec, but with a FEC of zero right now, do I even need to?? My vet says go ahead, and I probably will, but... argh, perhaps I am over-thinking this......

                        Comment


                        • By "iver/moxi", what exactly do you mean? Alternating between them? A moxi-only protocol would only be 4 times a year.

                          But yes, if your FECs continue to show low-no counts, then you'd really only need to be concerned with tapeworms twice a year. I probably wouldn't even worry about a power pack, since if there are encysted strongyles, they'd eventually emerge and show in a FEC. But, that would be your call if you wanted to take a precaution.
                          ______________________________
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ginger View Post
                            ChocoMare, I know that, from reading (some of) this thread. Frankly, I don't think NTWs are a major problem for my ponies, I certainly haven't noticed the issues that others have posted. But since I do use Iver/Moxi, perhaps I am controlling them adequately?

                            My questions are: (i) do Iver/Moxi sterilize female Onch, and if so, for how long; and (ii) are others using the strategic deworming protocol with success?

                            KY is hot in summer, but not as hot as GA, so I don't know how our climate affects the decision of when/when not to worm. I'd like to worm March/June/Sept/Dec, but with a FEC of zero right now, do I even need to?? My vet says go ahead, and I probably will, but... argh, perhaps I am over-thinking this......
                            Ah, sorry dear. Should not have assumed

                            Alas, the question about sterlizing the females is outside the realm of my knowledge. I'll have to poke into it.

                            Although your FEC is zero, stay on your schedule lest some critter o'the day takes up residence. Best to keep a clean house

                            And I TOTALLY understanding the "overthinking" part....we can make ourselves crazy if we're not careful.
                            <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

                            Comment


                            • I don't understand how a horseowner can rely on negative FECs?

                              What about encysted forms, bots, NTWs, tapes, and other "nasties" that do not shed eggs? Or is all of that covered by the few dosings of iver/moxi/praziquantel. ??

                              living in the land of wet pastures, little to no drying, little sun to kill the larva in manure.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by gabz View Post
                                I don't understand how a horseowner can rely on negative FECs?

                                What about encysted forms, bots, NTWs, tapes, and other "nasties" that do not shed eggs? Or is all of that covered by the few dosings of iver/moxi/praziquantel. ??
                                Yes, those would be covered by twice a year use of the proper chemicals. I know many areas of the country recommend 2x year dosing for tapes, and also 2x year for bots. It would be nice if one of the tape treatments could be a dd of pyrantel pamoate, just to avoid another use of ivermectin, but that means only 1x year for bots. But, if you're only using, say, ivermectin/prazi once a year, and let's say moxi/prazi once a year, that mitigates things a bit, and deals with bots, tapes, and encysted (except for L3).

                                living in the land of wet pastures, little to no drying, little sun to kill the larva in manure.
                                Yeah, that's bad news
                                ______________________________
                                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                Comment


                                • Gabz, I'm not relying solely on a negative FEC. That's just one measure. It means that, right now, the December moxi was very effective, my ponies have no adult worms shedding eggs and that any larvae remaining have not emerged yet. In other words, they are all low contaminants. JB has it right: rotating ivermectin and moxidectin (w/ praz once a year) will get most of the nasties. But I'm reluctant to use only Moxi because of concern with promoting resistance.

                                  Thanks all for your responses, I think I will try it for a year and take a number of FECs periodically to make sure I'm controlling the small strongyles. I'll let you all know how it goes!

                                  And ChocoMare, if you find out anything about that sterilization question, be sure to share! 'Cause if iver/moxi does this, and we find out for how long, would that affect how you approach the NTW issue?

                                  Comment


                                  • You might want to consider using prazi twice a year - Equimax once, Quest Plus once. The mites that carry tape worms are in the soil, on the blades of grass, very very difficult to not ingest them.
                                    ______________________________
                                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                    Comment


                                    • OK, I could do DD Strongid in June and Moxi/Praz in December. Would that be a good schedule for tape for this region? I have heard KY is a high-tape area.

                                      (BTW, to keep this thread NTW related, I did once have a horse with a mysterious weepy eye that cleared up after a routine dose with ivermectin... )

                                      Comment


                                      • That would certainly take care of the tapes twice a year. If you are comfy treating bots just once a year, then this will work.
                                        ______________________________
                                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                        Comment


                                        • yall might enjoy this story my vet shared with me.

                                          Guy buys a proven cutter. Finds that horse collapses - as though narcoleptic- when girthed up. Did all manner of tests, can't find anything. Do find his BP drops when girthed up, hence the fainting spell. It's readily reproduced. Once the horse awakens, he's fine.

                                          Vet wondered if onchocerca in the area of the spine, I think he said, might be the issue. Compression of girthing him up would slow the already compromised blood flow...hmmm. Ivermectin every two weeks, for 6 weeks. Horse was also put on steroids...but he was thinkin' the steroids would likely just suppress the response.

                                          Horse made a full recovery...in that he quit collapsing, the steroid were suspended, and the symptoms did not return.

                                          Comment

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