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something to kill adult Onchocerca? 19 CASE STUDIES POSTED-PAGE 58

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Bacchus View Post
    Yes, a tube is about what my horse takes
    Ah, well! There ya go I have bigguns too
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #22
      Ivermectin, yes, but...

      Are you sure that double dosing Ivermectin will kill the adults onchocerca?

      Everything I have found on the internet suggests that ivermectin kills the microfilariea, but not the adults. I was wondering if someone who had access to scientific journal articles has seen any new info about killing the adults...

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3755903 ----"It is concluded that the oral paste formulation of ivermectin, although not effective against adult onchocerca, is useful for the therapeutic control of microfilarias in the skin lesions of equine onchocerciasis."


      Here is some other info regarding onchocerca----

      http://www.slodigitaldesigns.com/dsl...ocerciasis.htm


      Tammy
      Last edited by calypsocapers; Jul. 2, 2008, 03:50 PM. Reason: url didn't fit!!

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by EqTrainer View Post
        Hey Chocomare - the Aussies have some really interesting deworming info, don't they?!!!
        Quite!
        <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by calypsocapers View Post
          Are you sure that double dosing Ivermectin will kill the adults onchocerca?

          Everything I have found on the internet suggests that ivermectin kills the microfilariea, but not the adults. I was wondering if someone who had access to scientific journal articles has seen any new info about killing the adults...

          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3755903 ----"It is concluded that the oral paste formulation of ivermectin, although not effective against adult onchocerca, is useful for the therapeutic control of microfilarias in the skin lesions of equine onchocerciasis."


          Here is some other info regarding onchocerca----

          http://www.slodigitaldesigns.com/dsl...ocerciasis.htm


          http://books.google.com/books?id=tdH...sult#PPA142,M1


          http://books.google.com/books?id=pVE...#PRA1-PT143,M1

          Tammy
          Hmmmmm, perhaps that's why the Equimax is recommended by our down-under friends?...to get the adults? Could be it's either the praziquantal alone OR in combination with the ivermectin that does them in.

          Would LOVE to know if there are, indeed, studies out there about this.
          <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by ChocoMare View Post
            Shazam...I think I found out why Equimax was recommended. Granted this is from Australia, but since we know that NTWs are rampant here, it applies:

            http://www.brunswickvet.com.au/Templ...=1291&specie=6

            Adult females worms up to 30cm long live in the major ligaments of the neck and, in rare cases, the flexor tendons and suspensory ligaments of the fetlock.
            Ok, that is just gross! Eww!

            Very interesting about the Equimax (Equest is the Down Under version). I wanna know why! Is it the prazi? Or is it the ivermectin/prazi combo? Off to search!
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by ChocoMare View Post
              Ah, well! There ya go I have bigguns too
              Oh, you guys ain't got the big'uns if you're just using *one* full tube My vet was out yesterday to administer stuff and got out the tape, measured, got busy and forgot what it said, so asked me, as she was getting the tape out again, what she said it was, and I said "about the whole tape" He's a 1270lb-er, and he'd be more if he wasn't leggy!
              ______________________________
              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

              Comment


              • #27
                The specific name of the Onchocerca that lives in soft tissue is:

                Onchocerca Reticulata -- a parasite of horses, mules and donkeys. Adult worms are found in the connective tissue of flexor tendons and suspensory ligament of the fetlock, mostly in the forelimb.

                Perhaps this is why there have been reports of foals with contracted tendons achieving full decontraction and proper alignment following proper dosing of Equimax. Hmmmmmmmmmmm
                <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by JB View Post
                  Oh, you guys ain't got the big'uns if you're just using *one* full tube My vet was out yesterday to administer stuff and got out the tape, measured, got busy and forgot what it said, so asked me, as she was getting the tape out again, what she said it was, and I said "about the whole tape" He's a 1270lb-er, and he'd be more if he wasn't leggy!
                  Ummmm, 3 tubes actually. Percheron gets the 1,900 pound dose. Clyde-X gets the 1,500.
                  <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by ChocoMare View Post
                    Ummmm, 3 tubes actually. Percheron gets the 1,900 pound dose. Clyde-X gets the 1,500.
                    Hehe, NOW we're talkin'!
                    ______________________________
                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by ChocoMare View Post
                      TOnchocerca Reticulata -- a parasite of horses, mules and donkeys. Adult worms are found in the connective tissue of flexor tendons and suspensory ligament of the fetlock, mostly in the forelimb.
                      Ok, this makes me wonder now what, if any, relationship these creepy crawlies have to dsld-lookalike issues Granted, that's in the hind end (usually? always?) but "mostly in the forelimb" leaves it open to existing in the hind limb
                      ______________________________
                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Welll, read this goodie: http://jvdi.org/cgi/reprint/18/3/307.pdf
                        <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          This entire discussion is making my skin crawl. I think I'll order more dewormer right now, thank you very much!
                          "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                          ---
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by EqTrainer View Post
                            This entire discussion is making my skin crawl. I think I'll order more dewormer right now, thank you very much!
                            Serious creepy crawly heebie jeebies!

                            This puts me struggling in the middle now - between all these hidden potentials (and possibly more common than we think), and the knowledge of fast increasing resistances to all classes of chemicals by all sorts/types of critters, how do you balance the two?
                            ______________________________
                            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              All I have to say is: eww. And I will be double-dosing all of mine with ivermectin next month instead of just the single dose.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                How frequently are folks thinking of double-dosing?
                                Given the Zimectrin Gold stories, would anyone double-dose that?
                                Would you double-dose yearlings?

                                This is very interesting how the pieces might fit. My older gelding had uveitis and midline itch. I hate these worms!

                                jan

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  While a double dose of Ivermectin will probably not hurt your horse, it may not be necessary if your horse is under 1250 lbs. The average tube of Ivermectin will cover 1250 lbs at a dose of 0.2 mg/kg. From some of the info I have seen it was stated that oral ivermectin at 0.2 mg / kg of body weight is sufficient to kill the microfilaria.

                                  But if your horse is overloaded with Onchocerca microfilaria and is then dewormed, it is possible for the dying/dead things to cause damage- some articles I ran across mentioned having to use corticosteroids to help reduce the inflammation of lesions produced by living and dead Onchocerca.

                                  This is really gross... thinking of these things crawling around under the tissues of horses!!

                                  Tammy
                                  ps As far as double dosing Zimectrin Gold I don't think that is one I would try- as you mentioned there are too many stories of it burning horses mouths at the normal dosage!

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    My mare has had these issues, mane rubbing, very itchy and bumpy, and my vet recommended to dose her every single month with Ivermectin. Which I did until the next vet call six months later. The second vet (same practice) said it was ok to stop the monthly dosing. Her skin is much, much better, and the rubbing and mane hair loss though still present is nothing like as severe as it was two years ago when i first got her. However, i think it may be time to give her several straight months on Ivermectin again, will ask the vet when he comes out.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Are you guys sure that the adults are being killed? Has anyone tested and found adults, double-dosed, and then tested and found no adults? Just wondering if the de-wormer is just killing the "babies" and showing good results, but the adults might still be there. It doesn't seem as if the adults are responsible for the itching, scabs, etc. Does anyone have proof that the adults are actually affected?
                                      "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        I don't know how you'd test for adults, since these critters don't live in the gut. Skin scrapings or biopsy?

                                        But, again, that'd probably only show the microfilia, not adults since the adults would have migrated deep into soft tissue and/or joints.
                                        <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Ichthammol

                                          I had a really bad problem 3 years ago with Onchocerca. My guy was so miserable. I gave him Ivermectin every day for 3 days then once a week for three weeks. Probably the grossest thing is knowing that these "creatures" were crawling around in his shoulder area...I put ichthammol on each bump...and viola when I went to the barn the next day...the bumps were gone and a hole about the size of a pencil lead was left. He healed up great soon after and there are, thankfully, no scars or bald patches.

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