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New treatment for EPM

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  • New treatment for EPM

    There is a new treatment out there for horses afflicted with EPM. It is Oroquin 10. Horses that have been treated with Marquis etc. and then relapsed are doing very well on this. There is also info out there that some horses benefit from being treated with lavamizol also. I had 4 with epm and a friend had 7 and all were treated with Marquis only to relapse not long after. Treated with the Oroquin 10 and friends horses are back competing in the gps and mine are all fine also. Have your vet contact Pathogenes.com. I'm so thankful I found Dr. Ellison and she was in my own backyard!.

  • #2
    I can't find anywhere what the quinolone is in Oraquin-10 and they've even misspelled quinolone on the Pathogenes website. If it's Baytril or Mobocyl or Orbax (or any of the other, not-so-well-known veterinary flouroquinolones) then it's certainly not new and regardless which member of the class it is, quinolones can have some undesirable side effects.
    First, and of special importance when dealing with horses, is the fact that quinolones, when compared to other classes of antibiotics, offer the greatest risk of causing colonization with MRSA and Clostridium difficile (C-diff). MRSA and horses go hand in hand, so caution there is warranted.
    Quinolones have been linked to tendon rupture and CNS toxicity, as well and in developing animals especially they can adversely affect the musculoskeletal system in a variety of ways.
    In humans, quinolones are contraindicated in patients with pre-existing CNS lesions and CNS inflammation. A Google of "flouroquinolone toxicity" will bring up some frightening stories.
    Many of the drugs that horses are given on a daily basis will interfere with the action of quinolones - anything containing aluminum, calcium, magnesium, iron and zinc (antacids, Red Cell, etc..) sucralfate, probenecid, cimetidine, antivirals, cyclosporin, and rifampin.
    Resistance to the quinolones develops rapidly and can develop during the course of a single treatment. Overuse of these drugs is a gargantuan problem already.
    The quinolones can be life savers, literally, when used appropriately, but far from being a panacea, they have an undesirable safety profile. For animals that need to maintain skeletal and connective tissue integrity, such as horses, the risks often (but not always) outweigh the benefits. Please use caution when considering an experimental use of such a drug.

    **steps off of soap box)**
    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen


    • Original Poster

      well hate to break your soap box but they have more then just a few success stories with vets from all around the country calling for scripts. Worked wonders on my 4 when Marquis AND Toltazaril (sp) did not...just saying. Perhaps doing a little research before climbing on your box might be in order?


      • #4
        I've done a lot of flouroquinolone research over many years, which is why I posted what I did. I never knocked efficacy. I only said that the safety profile leaves something to be desired, which is absolutely a fact. I'm not sure why you're being snarky with me, but I'll suggest to you that you might want to read a bit more before jumping down someone's throat without reason.

        Since you've used Oraquin-10, what are the active ingredient(s)?
        Last edited by JackieBlue; Nov. 12, 2011, 08:50 PM. Reason: Addition
        "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen


        • #5

          "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen


          • #6
            the active ingredients in oroquin 10 are decoquinate and levamisole


            • #7
              Thanks, Sprinterz! A cursory search came up with this document:


              Point #12 states that decoquinate is reported to have no antiprotozoal activity against anything other than coccidia.

              The summary states that decoquinate has low oral bioavailability.

              At least its safety margin is wider than many other quinolones.

              More searching is in order....
              "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen


              • Original Poster

                results speak volumes Jackieblue...according to my vet they are selling a ton of the Oriquin 10. Dr. Ellison is a DVM and has her PHD. She researches and develops tests etc exclusively for EPM. I suggest you read the whole website especially the blog.


                • Original Poster

                  oh and so sorry for not responding immediately to your question but I don't have a pc attached to my butt and I don't live and breathe COTH for certain!


                  • #10
                    Wow, Tommyknockers, what's got your panties in such a twist?
                    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen


                    • #11
                      I believe that someone questioned the risks vs benefits is what got her panties in a twist.


                      • Original Poster

                        Not in a twist at all , just don't like someone spouting off about something they know nothing about and also does not bother to read and investigate before spouting off. Get back to me after you do some research and read what is on the Pathogenes website. I've seen the results with my own eyes not only on my own but others. Proof is in the pudding.


                        • #13
                          You know Tommyknockers...you have a crappy attitude..


                          • #14
                            I know many people who have treated with the new drug. Only, they have purchased through a farm supply store and not used the vet mentioned at all. The fancy drugs don't always work and this offers a last ditch effort to save a horse who has no real other use if not fixed. The drug is cheap, the feed safety margin is huge, its non-toxic to other animals on the farm, and side effects seem to be minimal. Count me in as a believer. But, we've never treated an EPM horse with Marquis or Navigator, we have always used effective, affordable off lavel drugs.


                            • #15
                              I guarantee you JB knows way more about it than you do as she has done her own research, not just read what was written in a blog.
                              McDowell Racing Stables

                              Home Away From Home


                              • #16
                                Blog entries do not constitute decent sources of scientific info, in general.
                                The one above is more in the vein of advertorial that anything else.
                                "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                                ...just settin' on the Group W bench.


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by tradewind View Post
                                  You know Tommyknockers...you have a crappy attitude..
                                  That's kind of what I was thinking, too. Do you know me, Tommyknockers? How do you know I don't know what I'm talking about? What makes you think I didn't read the website? Why do you assume that I'm not an experienced researcher?
                                  I actually did read that website, in its entirety. But, as anyone with any experience in research would know, the proverbial horse's mouth is not always the best source of unbiased information in circumstances such as these. From what I gather, it appears that Wedgewood Pharmacy is compounding the cocktail called Oroquin-10. They've also recently distributed information regarding the efficacy of a compounded toltrazuril/DMSO combo for the treatment of EPM. I don't know which one they like best and I don't know how much Oroquin-10 is sold. I do know that Wedgewood isn't PCAB accredited. I do business with them and I like them fine, but while they dabble in compounding alternative treatments for various ailments, PCAB accredited pharmacies aren't touching toltrazuril or decoquinate with a 10 foot pole. Yet.
                                  A compounding pharmacy offering scripts to vets to "try" a compounded treatment that they must buy is not the usual manner in which new products are introduced to the market. The unconventional manner in which this combo drug is being introduced raised a red flag to me, as did your intolerant position toward my curiosity.
                                  If my own mother came to me and said, "Hey, there's a new EPM drug. It works great and the vet behind it is a genius," I'd do exactly as I did here. I'd research it, from many angles. I'd take the developer's own blog with a grain of salt and I'd ask questions. It doesn't mean I'm an idiot, or that I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground. It doesn't mean I have a personal grudge against someone involved with the distribution of the new drug. It simply means that I'm an educated, skeptical adult, capable of forming my own opinions and acting upon them. No offense meant to you or to Dr. Ellison.
                                  "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen


                                  • Original Poster

                                    Do you really think I also did not do any research?. I spent thousands and thousands of dollars on diagnostics, went to UF, went to EMCO, had a spinal tap done...until I finally found out about Dr. Ellison and Pathogenes. That is when I finally got my horses back after using Marquis,Totazaril,and the sulpha drugs to no avail and I also had so many western blot tests done that now I have NO confidence in them at all. Also add to that neck xrays to rule out wobblers and scoping for ulcers to the tune of $450 a horse. All I got after all these diagnostics,drugs,xrays etc. was the vets includiing McKay throwin up their hands and telling me they could not help me. All 4 of mine after Oroquin 10 are now fine and on the preventative. All 5 of my friends are fine and competing in the gps again. Do I know this drug is the cure all? NO, but I can sure attest that so far it has worked farrrrrrrrrrrrr better then any of the others out there. I did not just read a blog and jump right on the bandwagon.


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Tommyknockers View Post
                                      Do you really think I also did not do any research?. I spent thousands and thousands of dollars on diagnostics, went to UF, went to EMCO, had a spinal tap done...until I finally found out about Dr. Ellison and Pathogenes.
                                      Well, not for nothing but it seems like you're asking people to not do any research but rather to hop on board. I have no strong opinions either way but I do as much research as I can before I would use something. I work in research for a living too..so, asking questions and questioning what is out there is in my nature. JackieBlue brought up some valid points and I fail to see why you seem to be taking it so personally. Perhaps this new protocol is great, happy it worked for you and seems to have worked for others but I have to say, your attitude and getting defensive when others have brought up what I consider valid points/questions is baffling and to me, raises a red flag to me.


                                      • Original Poster

                                        I wish someone had told me about Pathogenes a long time ago. It would have saved me thousands of dollars. Not saying it is a cure all nor am I telling anyone to just "jump on board" because I say so. Have your vet call Dr. Ellison..simple as that. marquis is not as effective and costs a whole lot more then the oriquin 10 which has so far proven itself to be effective on the horses that have taken it.