• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Black hole in mouth with "cauliflower" growing out? Updated with pics pg 2

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Black hole in mouth with "cauliflower" growing out? Updated with pics pg 2

    My old man Polo has the ODDEST thing. In two places on the roof of his mouth, just behind each of the two respective front teeth, he has a black hole with a cauliflower looking thing growing out.

    On his tongue, where these things would touch, he has a growth as well.

    He has had the tongue thing for a LONG time-I thought it was just some kind of scarring from his canines...

    The dentist was out and thought the same thing until she sedated him, put the speculum in and found the black holes.

    She cut a piece of tissue and sent it off and waiting the report.

    She has never seen this and no one I have spoken with has.

    Since the report is taking so long, I thought I would get feedback here.

    Initial thoughts are-oral infection connected to his Cushing's, fungal infection, oral abscess, or oral cancer.

    Anyone?
    Last edited by LMH; Jun. 12, 2008, 02:26 PM.

  • #2
    Is he grey? I've seen melanomas on the lips look like that, but never actually in the mouth.

    Comment


    • #3
      sounds fungal, humans can get something similar too, I can't remember what it's called and why or how

      Comment


      • #4
        Horses do get melanomas inside the mouth. The vet told me my grey mare has them but I haven't ventured to see them myself. They can be a problem if they rupture.

        Comment


        • #5
          Sarcoids?
          Horsezee

          Comment


          • #6
            sounds like cancer, and i do know the name of it but its on the tip of my tongue, but its maglient tumours not sure if it was you i posted on though

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              He is a bay.

              I have googled for hours and just can't find anything.

              GLS-are you thinking of a carcinoma type tumor? Squamous Cell Carcinoma? I was reading they are common in the eye but one site mentioned they could grow in the mouth.

              The symmetry of it is odd...seems less like cancer. But it hit me late last night that maybe it is one BIG thing that just appears like two things.

              The fact there are corresponding thingies on his tongue sounds more fungal, again...I have never really known cancer to spread by contact?

              Still no news from the darn tissue tests.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Talk about timing. The report just came in and he has:

                [FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=2]Eroded squamous plaques with bacteria and chronic purulent inflammation

                The equine dentist/vet is consulting with Dr Lowder at UGA so I will have more information soon.

                Now I just have to understand what that means
                [/SIZE][/FONT]

                Comment


                • #9
                  It sounds like they are still working on a compete diagnosis...I got an initial report like that when we were trying to figure out what type of skin thing Bo had going on. I know you're frustrated, so I'm sending big hugs and big jingles for Polo!

                  Is Polo doing well otherwise?
                  RIP Bo, the real Appassionato
                  5/5/84-7/12/08

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well, I know "squamous plaques" are scaly things like psoriasis, and the purulent discharge means there is pus in there (and the bacteria), so there's some sort of scaly thing that got infected. I am sure there's more to it than that but in the meantime I would think he'd need antibiotics?

                    I would guess that he's got some sort of growth that got infected and the infection ate away (the "black holes").

                    Not any sort of horse expert, but I get a lot of infections so "purulent" is a word I hear a lot And, I have had infections that ate holes in my skin.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Appassionato View Post
                      Is Polo doing well otherwise?
                      I have no idea sometimes.

                      He started on the Pergolide about 2? weeks ago? I don't know. He seemed better at first, then had a few days of aggression.

                      Now he is flat out depressed. But it has been almost 100* every day.

                      Hell, IR, Cushings and now some vegetable growth in his mouth.

                      He was far too dignified his entire life to be heading down this road.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        FWIW about the pergolide, I've read that some horses symptoms worsen when first starting it. I can only speak from my own observations (IOW, please research other's experiences as well), but with Bo is physical appearance (long hair, general Cushing's look, etc.) got MUCH worse after starting the pergolide but his overall demeanor improved. His appearance frightened me enough to retest his ACTH levels in order to check his pergolide levels. I also checked for IR, it was negative. I don't know if Polo is IR, but if he is, that may be wreaking havoc somewhat despite the pergolide for Cushing's? The nearly 100* weather has been a real PITA down here as well. I feel your pain!

                        In any case, let's wait and see what the results of the mouth thing actually is, then proceed. In the meantime, more hugs and jingles! You know, just thinking out loud, but my understanding is that Cushing's (and possibly IR too) can impair the immune system a bit...maybe this mouth thing with Polo is actually a secondary problem to his original problems? I mean, like it matters which condition caused what, you'd like them all to be fixed and gone. Just thinking out loud!
                        RIP Bo, the real Appassionato
                        5/5/84-7/12/08

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Appassionato View Post

                          You know, just thinking out loud, but my understanding is that Cushing's (and possibly IR too) can impair the immune system a bit...maybe this mouth thing with Polo is actually a secondary problem to his original problems? I mean, like it matter which condition caused what, you'd like them all to be fixed and gone. Just thinking out loud!
                          That was actually my first thought. So yes we shall know soon enough.

                          And yes Mr P is IR. Normal insulin is 5-20 and his was 200+ when I checked it.

                          So his body is likely having some reorganization issues.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            LMH -

                            I don't know if this helps you at all, but in humans, some endocrine disorders can really wreak havoc with the immune system. Bacterial or fungal infections can be super nasty and be hard to eliminate because they spread so fast.

                            I bet now that the horse is being treated for his condition, and you know what is causing the lesions, he'll be much better soon.

                            I'd say give him a peppermint as a treat - but a gentle hug and a wither scratch is probably better for him. Hope all goes well.
                            Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                            Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                            -Rudyard Kipling

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ketaconozole

                              can horses take ketaconozole? UGA vet school did a big study on that drug before it was approved, and it works if there is a fungal infection. systemic fungal infections are hard to clear up. (My cat was one of the experimentals in that study and lived to be 18).
                              hope it is something minor and not fungal.
                              oh, they do use gentian (sp) violet for human fungal infections in the mouth.
                              good luck. hope it is minor,
                              Last edited by cloudyandcallie; Jun. 11, 2008, 01:45 PM. Reason: sp

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by LMH View Post
                                Talk about timing. The report just came in and he has:

                                [FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=2]Eroded squamous plaques with bacteria and chronic purulent inflammation[/FONT][/SIZE]

                                [SIZE=2][FONT=Comic Sans MS]The equine dentist/vet is consulting with Dr Lowder at UGA so I will have more information soon.[/FONT][/SIZE]

                                [SIZE=2][FONT=Comic Sans MS]Now I just have to understand what that means[/FONT][/SIZE]
                                [SIZE=2][FONT=Comic Sans MS][/SIZE][/FONT]
                                I lost a 28 yr old arabian gelding a few years ago to what we assume was squamous cell cancer. He was advanced Cushings, but stable. None of my vets had ever seen anything like it. Very virulent and fast, we do suspect it was Cushings related somehow.

                                I hope your horse has something else.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  craz..what did yours look like?

                                  The dentist took pics-I will ask her to email them so I can upload photos.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by LMH View Post
                                    craz..what did yours look like?

                                    The dentist took pics-I will ask her to email them so I can upload photos.
                                    It started out as just a swelling under the jaw and he was off his feed and NQR. This was Friday. I don't normally call a vet when a horse doesn't finish his grain, but Gumdrop was 28 yrs old and advanced Cushings.

                                    Saw vet Sat am, other than slight swelling under the jaw and not feeling well, nothing to see. No visible sores in his mouth. Put him on Banamine and fed him anything he could eat including Senior feed and alfalfa (not his regular IR diet). Still not eating well over the weekend, but hung out in pasture and ate some. Was eating less and less in the stall. Discussed blood work with vet, but it was Presidents Day weekend, so no labs open anyway. Made appt for Tues am early to pull blood and see what was going on.

                                    Tues the swelling under his jaw was much larger and we got excited that it was an abcess. That would be a good thing. Still nothing inside his mouth. By afternoon after constant hot packing, the swelling was larger and could see a nodule in his mouth that I though could be an abcess. It was really angry looking, yellow and purple. Off to the vet to get it lanced. Vet went to lance the nodule and it was nothing but blood, lots and lots of blood. Then we knew something was seriously wrong. Doubled his Banamine and took him home. He was my daughters horse so it was her decision. Arrangements were made to have to vet come out to look further into it or euthanize if necessary.

                                    Wed am - Gumdrop's swelling had increased terriblely, up behind his ears, his entire mouth was necrotic both sides, under his tongue and he had gone blind, he couldn't swallow, eat or drink. This was overnight. Sigh.

                                    We sent him over the bridge. No necropsy was done, but vet did research and made lots of phone calls. An extremely aggressive squamous cell vascular cancer seemed to be the answer, very rare. His Cushings tumor could have turned malignant, no way to know.

                                    We miss him.

                                    I sincerely hope this isn't what your horse has. Any sort of Squamous Cell terrifies me.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Ambrey View Post
                                      Well, I know "squamous plaques" are scaly things like psoriasis, and the purulent discharge means there is pus in there (and the bacteria), so there's some sort of scaly thing that got infected. I am sure there's more to it than that but in the meantime I would think he'd need antibiotics?

                                      I would guess that he's got some sort of growth that got infected and the infection ate away (the "black holes").

                                      Not any sort of horse expert, but I get a lot of infections so "purulent" is a word I hear a lot And, I have had infections that ate holes in my skin.
                                      Ack, barf, thanks for sharing.
                                      Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Thanks for the comments everyone.

                                        Still waiting on the dentist to speak to the dentist at UGA.

                                        I do have photos though but can't upload them here

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X