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Quidding not resolved after float

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  • Quidding not resolved after float

    25 year old mare suffered choke in April after eating unsoaked Timothy pellets. Choke resolved and pellets are now soaked. About 3 weeks ago, noticed quidding. Vet came out on Monday and performed complete mouth and teeth exam. No loose, missing, broken or otherwise problems. There were a few minor points which he floated. This mare has had great dental care her entire life and her mouth has been checked/floated twice a year for the last two years. She grazes normally as far as I can tell. She is in good flesh, really a little heavy this Summer. But I am concerned about the coming Winter. Any suggestions about what to do next would be appreciated. I am very close to vet school and hospital.

  • #2
    So she just got floated 2 days ago?? Most of the time when mine start quidding and they get floated it doesn't really resolve until about 4-6 days later. YMMV. I'd give a couple of more days.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Thanks for the advice. Have had her since she was 3. So she is very special to me.

      Comment


      • #4
        If the vet thought that taking off the points would resolve the quidding I would say he would be being more then optimistic. I have never seen points alone cause quidding. Other things fixed during the float yes, points no. More then likely the cause of your older horse quidding is that there is one or more teeth that the roots are very short on. What type of float did your vet use? One thing that I have seen work very well for checking for loose teeth is the power float with a diamond bit. I like the diamond bit for older horses since there is very little vibration but hopefully your vet used a speculum and power tools so they could truly see each tooth as they work on each, individual tooth. Other things to look for are cracked teeth, teeth with cavities, and periodontal pockets. Since it sounds like your vet doesn't specialize you may want to just follow up with the vet and ask if they know about those type of things. Also if he didn't go in and look with a mirror and/or an endoscope system you may want someone who does that to try.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          No he didn't think points were cause of quidding, but while she was sedated, he removed them. Have never had a power float done on her, always manual, but with sedation and speculum. He suggested a further check at the Vet school if problem continues. She has always had a good mouth and it appears that whatever is going on is probably associated with her advanced age. Thanks for great suggestions.

          Comment


          • #6
            So does she eat pellets only and is quidding those or quidding hay? I had a senior who quidded (funny word) hay but could eat soaked, mushy pellets just fine. His feeding protocol was a mix of beet pulp and alfalfa pellets, soaked, 4x per day. He was in good weight and happy until he died (unrelated to his quidding issue).
            My Mustang Adventures - Mac, my mustang | Annwylid D'Lite - my Cob filly

            "A horse's face always conveys clearly whether it is loved by its owner or simply used." - Anja Beran

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            • Original Poster

              #7
              She seems to be only quidding hay. As far as I can tell she is grazing on grass okay. She is kept up during the day. She is in good flesh, heavy, right now. More concerned that this problem be resolved prior to Winter. If not, beet pulp is the way to go. Thinking she could benefit from more extensive exam, ie perhaps xray and powerfloat. The hay she has is a prairie grass. Feed hay pellets in order to give her vit/min supplement as well as joint supplement. She has never eaten grain. Has never needed it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sounds like she might just be getting older and her teeth are worn down. We have one on TC Senior and very fine alfalfa hay (he eats the tender leaves). He does OK with pasture (not great, had to up his feed), but in the winter, he gets three meals of senior. This year, I think I'm going to add in soaked alfalfa cubes. He looks great, though.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would suggest getting a second opinion. Vets are great, but vets are not equine dentists. Her teeth are probably pretty worn down, and will continue to wear down more rapidly as she continues to age. We have a 32 year old mare at our barn who has nothing more than nubs, and stopped being able to eat hay four years ago. She was quidding it into little hay cigars and we put her entirely on a diet of soaked hay cubes, soaked senior feed, and beet pulp (after a thorough examination by our equine dentist who said no matter what he did, he couldn't make her teeth grow back). She has maintained her weight and is healthy and happy and still does eat grass out in the field. She just can't eat hay or anything dried (cubes, grain, etc) anymore.

                  To be proactive about the winter I would suggest that you gradually begin to increase her feed as winter approaches, so she doesn't have the chance to lose any weight. Our mare gets 3lbs timothy hay cubes and 3lbs equine senior, both soaked in lukewarm water, 3x per day. In the winter she is fed an additional meal per day of hay cubes. Best of luck! It's wonderful you've this your mare her entire life.
                  "Four things greater than all things are,
                  Women and Horses and Power and War."

                  - Rudyard Kipling, The Ballad of the King's Jest

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I also would try to get someone to look at the mouth again, in case something was missed the first time around, like a cracked tooth, maybe.

                    We acquired two old horses lately quidding badly, that needed intensive mouth work done.
                    They had mouth ulcers from the neglected teeth and, once all that was addressed, they quit quidding.

                    I don't think just being old or missing teeth would be reason enough to quid much.
                    Then, you just had her mouth worked on a few days ago, give it a couple of weeks and see where you are then.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Keribeau View Post
                      Any suggestions about what to do next would be appreciated. I am very close to vet school and hospital.
                      sometimes in elderly horses the quidding is not made better...you just have to take it to the next care level.

                      Tamara
                      Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                      I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just being old can be a reason...one of ours has teeth so worn down, they feel like beach glass. No grinding action there.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bluey View Post

                          I don't think just being old or missing teeth would be reason enough to quid much.
                          .
                          Actually old teeth, missing teeth, and loose teeth are the main reasons horses quid.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
                            sometimes in elderly horses the quidding is not made better...you just have to take it to the next care level.

                            Tamara
                            The old guy had his teeth done by a veterinarian who specializes in dentistry. He did quite a bit of correction but said that the old guy would continue to drop food, just less of it.
                            Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                            Incredible Invisible

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              yes it is sometimes just a consequence of age.

                              Tamara
                              Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                              I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                The timeline for wearing teeth to the point where they can only quid hay is different for each horse. Some 25 year olds have nearly worn away all their reserve crown and are beginning to have only the roots of their molars to chew hay. Roots aren't very effective for grinding hay into a bolus that can be swallowed. The geriatric mouth can often be helped by floating if the floater understands the function of the geriatric mouth. Small changes can have big results if the appropriate tools and techniques are used. Since many of the molars may be quite shallow even very slight high spots or sharp spots can cause trouble. Most of my old timers do well on an annual schedule with the fall being the best time to float prior to winter. Generally I find that quidding comes on slowly in the golden years, floating usually stops it for the time but after several years of correcting they may begin to quid permanently. Some old timers will never quid even with very few useful teeth. The finer the hay the easier it should be to chew.
                                Old mouth should be treated like fine antiques. Beware aggressive floats or too frequent floating. Approaches using power tools with diamond grits should be avoided, your horse has already used up most of it's reserve crown and powers tools with aggressive bits will only speed the process.
                                http://www.traditionalequinedentistry.com/

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Toothgrinder View Post
                                  The timeline for wearing teeth to the point where they can only quid hay is different for each horse. Some 25 year olds have nearly worn away all their reserve crown and are beginning to have only the roots of their molars to chew hay. Roots aren't very effective for grinding hay into a bolus that can be swallowed. The geriatric mouth can often be helped by floating if the floater understands the function of the geriatric mouth. Small changes can have big results if the appropriate tools and techniques are used. Since many of the molars may be quite shallow even very slight high spots or sharp spots can cause trouble. Most of my old timers do well on an annual schedule with the fall being the best time to float prior to winter. Generally I find that quidding comes on slowly in the golden years, floating usually stops it for the time but after several years of correcting they may begin to quid permanently. Some old timers will never quid even with very few useful teeth. The finer the hay the easier it should be to chew.
                                  Old mouth should be treated like fine antiques. Beware aggressive floats or too frequent floating. Approaches using power tools with diamond grits should be avoided, your horse has already used up most of it's reserve crown and powers tools with aggressive bits will only speed the process.
                                  And why would the diamond need avoided? I am of a huge opinion, and so are many, that you should never hand float an older horse with hand files. Because of the short roots you are more inclined to knock those teeth loose. The very, very smooth diamond head is amazing for older horses.

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