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Hot to improve hoof WALL?

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  • Hot to improve hoof WALL?

    A horse on my care pulled a shoe and the farrier is on vacation for several days, so I took off the other front. I haven't liked the way his feet have been growing in the past several months...... I've already shared my concerns with my farrier .However, I was very concerned with what I saw!

    He has TB ish feet.........a thin sole (needs front shoes to work and jump)..heels too far forward (one rolling under)and toes too have been too long which created a dish that he's been trying to get out......but my biggest complaint is there is very little hoof wall! His wall is paper thin, but also totally flat to his soles. It seems to me you can't get the dish out when there is no hoof to file back???

    I'm painting him with Keratex and feeding bioten and a great quality feed (Seminole Wellness Perform Safe). Grant, we are in humid FL so he's out on wet grass at night.....It's supposed to be close to 100 today (NOT including humidity/heat index which is off the chrts) Is there anything else I can to do thicken and grow the hoof wall?
    Attached Files
    www.flyingcolorsfarm.comHome of pinto stallion Claim to Fame and his homozygous son, Counterclaim. Friend us on Facebook!https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Fl...04678589573428

  • #2
    Buy crossapol. Follow directions. Strengthens hoof wall and sole.
    You won't see a change for about 3 months, but then.....well, my horse has not lost a shoe in over 2 yrs.

    Crossapol is a lot cheaper if you buy a case of 12 bottles at a time. I get mine from Georgiafarriersupply.com but you can probably find a farrier supply co. in FL that carries it.

    You must follow directions for number of days of application. My former BO tried to skimp on applications to start with and just wasted the attempt.

    Keratex never worked on my horses.
    However, the lifedatalabs hoof disinfectant also worked well on them years ago. My farrier prefers crossapol and it works,, so I use it.

    I also use Seminole (safe and lite) and double strength farriers formula, altho my farrier would prefer a different hoof supplement.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think the problem is a little bigger than crossapol or keratex.

      Comment


      • #4
        My TB is still on day t/o, can't handle the wet grass. It's a PITA but he goes out from 7:00 am till about 12:00 pm. Also I've had better results with glanzen by Horsetech than Farriers Formula. Keeping there feet dry really helps. Good luck.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by LMH View Post
          I think the problem is a little bigger than crossapol or keratex.
          Ditto.

          They may help keep things in better shape in the meantime, but the "lateral" picture clearly shows distortion which is causing a good deal of, if not most of the hoof wall issues.

          As for feeding for the feet, the basic diet needs to be there first. If his diet is lacking in sufficient copper, lysine, zinc, et, then you'd start by evaluating his feed. You can't do a whole lot about changing hay, usually, but you can usually do a whole lot as far as what else he's eating
          ______________________________
          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

          Comment


          • #6
            OP, did you ask your vet about those feet?
            www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm dealing with a similar issue now. This horse has always had thin chipping walls, slow growth, and generally high maintenence feet. There is a long back story that isn't really relevant but the upshot is that on 6/13 my regular farrier pulled my horse's shoes and discovered a case of white line disease.

              I soaked him in CleanTrax on June 19 and started him on McCauley's BioTime supplement on the advice of my farrier on June 16th.

              I'm the kind of person who like to chronicle things so I've taken lots of photos. These are cell phone pics so not the best but good enough to see the progress.

              I don't know if the credit should go more to the CleanTrax or the BioTime but I'm happy with the results of the combination.

              https://picasaweb.google.com/mswillie.1/CopieSFeet#

              As an aside there has been plenty of duct tape, Magic cushion, vet wrap, boots, bute (at first), etc. used over the past 6 weeks. No need to go into all that here.

              The horse has not been in work. I figured better to let him take a break than to try to bring him back too soon. My farrier is due out today so I'm hoping to get back to normal soon.

              Edited to add: Yes, I know that growth comes from the top down but it is the growth from the top driving what I see below and I can attest that this horse has never had this amount of growth in the 2.5 years I've known/owned him.
              "Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple” – Barry Switzer

              Comment


              • #8
                Nothing you put on those feet is going to make much difference. You need a better trim and a more appropriate diet, I think. I'd have my vet take a look, if s/he is any good with hoof related issues, and find some horses with lovely feet and ask who trims/shoes them.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  I agree that I'm not happy with the trim and distortions that have developed (they weren't always there). That is why I posted.

                  I'm puzzled why anyone would think his diet is inadequate. The feed I use is top quality and he gets plenty of it plus farrier's formula on top of it........

                  My vet is coming out tomorrow to check a mare and I plan to have him look at him while he's here......

                  I was hoping some of the farriers who post on this would chime in.....my biggest question was is it possible to improve the thickness and structure of hoof wall???
                  www.flyingcolorsfarm.comHome of pinto stallion Claim to Fame and his homozygous son, Counterclaim. Friend us on Facebook!https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Fl...04678589573428

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    IME you can't improve thickness and structure of the hoof wall if the building materials aren't there (diet) or the work is not being done right (trimming). I'd go looking for some really nice looking, functional feet and find out who is trimming them....it's hard to believe there was a shoe ON that foot with those heels unless the shoe was short and the heels overgrew it.
                    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
                    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
                    Northern NV

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by florida foxhunter View Post
                      I'm puzzled why anyone would think his diet is inadequate. The feed I use is top quality and he gets plenty of it plus farrier's formula on top of it........
                      I agree, one cannot say the diet is inadequate in this case, not when there is obviously a non-negligible trimming issue. The diet MAY be contributing to things being as relatively bad as they are, but it may not be.


                      my biggest question was is it possible to improve the thickness and structure of hoof wall???
                      Possible? Yes Most of that though will come from prolonged, proper trimming. The extra on top of that will be a good diet. Beyond that, it's all genetics.

                      What's he eating?
                      ______________________________
                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        He was eating Seminole Wellness Perform Safe......a 12% protien, 8 % fat, 20% fiber balanced pelleted low carb feed..........and now doing half that and half of Seminole Wellness Perform Safe Senior......(they are $18-21 per bag feeds!!)
                        10 quarts a day, plus good pasture 12 hours, and good quality local hay when in on pine shavings under fans......also gets Farriers Formula am and pm....as directed.
                        He looks like he's in fantastic condition......a great weight, lovely coat, main and tail.

                        The feet are a little shorter in length in this photo as they broke off because of the nail holes and the farrier not getting right here. (he is usually great about coming asap, but was on vacation this time) Although, I would like there to be more foot in general! I've been insisting he be shod with a fuller heel.
                        www.flyingcolorsfarm.comHome of pinto stallion Claim to Fame and his homozygous son, Counterclaim. Friend us on Facebook!https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Fl...04678589573428

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yep, I'd say the diet is not any part of this
                          ______________________________
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            florida foxhunter in gray, stuff deleted

                            I'm painting him with Keratex and feeding bioten and a great quality feed (Seminole Wellness Perform Safe). Grant, we are in humid FL so he's out on wet grass at night...

                            Hoof morphology and function are a reflection of DNA, husbandry (including nutrition) and environment.

                            Some horses, especially purpose-bred horses, are born with poor feet because most successful breeders use performance/production as the primary criteria for breeding. In other words, when a breeder is looking for a race horse, most breed black type to black type and hope for black type, not good feet.

                            A horse can be getting everything it needs for healthy hooves from its diet and have its hooves trimmed/shod as best they can possibly be, but if the limits imposed by its DNA have been reached, its hooves are NEVER going to get any better.

                            Night turnout in wet grass is NOT a good thing for the hooves because it forces the hooves to undergo a constant cycle of wet/dry that can break down the keratin binding the strands of epithelial cells that form the stratum medium, the largest part of the hoof wall.

                            Who is in control of this aspect of the horse's environment?
                            Tom Stovall, CJF
                            No me preguntes cualquier preguntas, yo te diré no mentiras.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Guess I'll start keeping him in at night.....and trying to let him out a few hours in the am before the worst heat.......but the dew stays on till 10 am sometimes.
                              I've been painting him with Keratex Gel in the past to keep the moisture out.....but obviously not enough......
                              www.flyingcolorsfarm.comHome of pinto stallion Claim to Fame and his homozygous son, Counterclaim. Friend us on Facebook!https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Fl...04678589573428

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by JB View Post
                                Yep, I'd say the diet is not any part of this

                                I disagree....it still could be.

                                Some horses respond like this when getting too MUCH of 'stuff' even minerals.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I do agree about "dew poisoning" but: I was confused when I moved my 2 from a barn with dry paddocks in town, where I rinsed them off every day after riding, to grass pasture where hooves deteriorated of the one hothouse horse bred to stay on shavings unless ridden. Hooves got wet every day when I rinsed both horses off on concrete wash rack. No problems. Dew on pasture when we moved out, lots of problems with one horse.

                                  My farrier said that he learned at a seminar that the fertilizers used on pastures can and do affect the quality of the hoof when dew or rain is present. He said our soil is very acidic. (And my BOs do not lime anything, stalls or pastures.) He wanted one of my horses out during the dry period during the day He said the dew was bad for his hooves. . Trouble was, this horse sunburns so he cannot stay out during day.

                                  So I started him, the horse not the farrier, on crossapol and it really did the trick. (Farrier is on Budlight.) Mowing the pasture also helped and not being out where the grass is lush has helped.

                                  Different things work for different horses. i've tried glanzen for a year , next level for a year, and topicals like keratex with no results. Oh and the smartpak hoof supp has more of everything, but it made my horse stock up. The next level worked great on an arab at one barn, but did nothing for C&C. As others have said, genes count.

                                  And if you don't have problems with feeeding your horses dead cows, the unflavored gelatin will grown strong hooves. I had great fingernails years ago when I didn't know what gellatin was made of.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Tom Stovall View Post
                                    Some horses, especially purpose-bred horses, are born with poor feet because most successful breeders use performance/production as the primary criteria for breeding. In other words, when a breeder is looking for a race horse, most breed black type to black type and hope for black type, not good feet.

                                    A horse can be getting everything it needs for healthy hooves from its diet and have its hooves trimmed/shod as best they can possibly be, but if the limits imposed by its DNA have been reached, its hooves are NEVER going to get any better.
                                    Yep. I own that horse. Great black type, not so great feet. Actually similar in some respects to the OP although mostly the flat sole, thin walls. We are switching to glue-ons (fingers crossed they stay on) because the summer environment is really tough on her -- dew in night TO, flies in day TO....wet/dry, stomping at flies, and old nail holes are ruining her feet....

                                    I am also going to invest in fly wraps as well to hopefully reduce the stomping, and hope the combination will be enough to get us through the summer.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      C&C...if you like marshmallows, they have gelatin as an ingredient too

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by florida foxhunter View Post
                                        I was hoping some of the farriers who post on this would chime in.....my biggest question was is it possible to improve the thickness and structure of hoof wall???
                                        Scientific answer, NO.

                                        Comment

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