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HYPP N/H - Now what?

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  • HYPP N/H - Now what?

    Am posting under an alter to protect the innocent

    Nine months ago I purchased a nice QH gelding from a friend's barn. He had been with her for almost a year prior to me buying him. Owner lost interest, stop paying board on him, etc. You get the picture. No papers - although we could estimate his age to be about 9 years old.

    I prepurchased him and did not have a HYPP test done on him at the time. Quite frankly, I guess I was stupid enough and felt it wasn't neccessary. He had been living at her farm eating sweet feed and alfalfa for almost a year. I subsequently put the horse into 90 days training, brought him home, and never gave it a thought.

    New vet comes out to give spring shots. She looks at him, hears my complaint that he tends to be a noisy breather when eating, and suggests a test. Figured why not - it will make it easier for me if I want to insure him down the road.


    Test results just came back. He is HYPP N/H.

    He has never shown any symptoms in the past year and a half. He has been shipped, tranqed, ridden, lived with three hours of turnout, lived out 24/7. Currently is eating a small amount of sweet feed (.90% potassium), timothy hay and hay stretcher pellets. He has a paddock and run in situation.

    Do I change anything? A couple of people have already told me don't mess with his feed since he has not shown any signs. How worried should I be? Can a horse that has never shown signs exhibit symptoms as they age?

  • #2
    Yes, you change his feed to be as low in potassium as you can. No alfalfa. Find out which hays are generally low in potassium, or test specific batches. No oats. There are no guarantees - the diet that may be fine for him now could bring on a seizure literally tomorrow.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

    Comment


    • #3
      I would be careful with your horses diet. I had an N/H mare that was fine for years on grass hay and oats. A couple years later/new owner, she had a full blown episode where she went down and vet was called out. The new owner said she kept her on a low potassium diet, so maybe even if you are careful they can still have an episode. A few years after that she died during the night. I don't understand how anyone can justify breeding an HYPP positive horse. When ever you see a really nice quarter horse for sale that you wonder why they don't have papers....that's a red flag.
      "Humans will never devise an invention more beautiful, more simple,
      or more direct than does Nature." ~Leonardo da Vinci

      Comment


      • #4
        I have an N/H horse He eats Compete by Nutrena and good alfalfa hay. He is non symptomatic. I ride/work/show the crappola out of him with no problems. Every N/H horse is different. You'll find MOST N/H horse NEVER have a symptom. So don't over react.
        "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"

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        • #5
          FWIW, I know a 17 or 18 year old QH mare who's N/H... girl who bought her didn't even realize she was N/H until recently, when she happened to find the test results in with the mare's paperwork. So obviously, nothing special was ever done for her, and she's never had a problem (knock on wood).
          Against My Better Judgement: A blog about my new FLF OTTB
          Do not buy a Volkswagen. I did and I regret it.
          VW sucks.

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          • #6
            Do not assume that just because many N/H horses never have a symptom that yours won't, and that it can't be tomorrow. They are ticking time bombs - some just never go off.

            I have a strong feeling there are a LOT more N/H horses that do seize than people think. There are SO many unknowing owners out there who get horses they have no clue about - not pedigree, not breed, and certainly not anything about any HYPP status. The horse has a "seizure" and dies, or hurts and owner, or breaks a leg and is put down, and the horse is either sold as "dangerous" or the owner/vet never even consider HYPP a possibility. I sure don't know that for certain, but it's my strong suspicion it happens a lot more than people realize.
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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            • #7
              just curious... what are the symptons of HYPP N/H?

              I have an older QH gelding that I never really thought about having it, but maybe I should get him tested?
              www.yellowroseeventing.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Yellow Rose it can be as benign as a funny eye blink from time to time when the eye lid seems to hang for a second then it's done, to full on attack: full body sweat, horse goes down and just lays there, rigid, while the tremors go through them. The mare I knew looked like a squirrel was rooting around under her hide. Pretty freaky stuff.

                for the OP I'd research the HYPP diet (there's yahoo groups among 10K other resources) and get him on a good supportive diet.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by yellow rose View Post
                  just curious... what are the symptons of HYPP N/H?

                  HYPP N/H is not a disease. Just means he is a carrier of the condition-a genetic abnormality...so there are no symptoms of N/H.

                  Symptoms of HYPP are siezures, neurological type behaviors and problems, tics, some just suddently fall over. Can strike at any age without warning. Can also never show up at all.

                  Traced to Impressive it is likely the result of too many crosses to too many relatives. Seems more prevelent in those with heavier bodies but a refined head, neck and throatlatch, lots of high white, a bright coat color-usually chestnut but all the others too. In other words, the perfect QH show horse.

                  Since AQHA restricts registration...I would be suspicious of no papers on a horse that looks like these do. I would even be suspicious of those with papers that look like this but don't seem to trace to Impressive-people lie when money is involved.

                  Finally, not all Impressive decendents carry it and he was otherwise a fine horse and has many fine decendents on the ground. I'd buy one but not without the test...and I'd test anything that looked like that even if the papers said otherwise.
                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just curious here, as I have no knowledge of HYPP. . . several years ago I bought a grade Paint mare ( without papers or history, obviously) for my granddaughters to ride when they visit for summer vacation and spring break. Recently had a neurologic episode with her where she could not get up on the first try after laying down. Called the vet, he suggested EPM, did the blood test and she tests positive for exposure. In talking this over with a friend who is heavily into Quarter Horses, she asked if the mare was a Quarter-cross, and if so did I have her tested. I did not, because it truly never entered my mind. She has a very broad build with lots of chest and good muscle throughout her body. Should I have her tested, just to be on the safe side? We are treating for EPM, since she shows no signs of other illness, but she also has not had difficulty for the past ten days.
                    "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you..."

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by findeight View Post
                      HYPP N/H is not a disease. Just means he is a carrier of the condition-a genetic abnormality...so there are no symptoms of N/H.
                      Nope. It IS a disease and ANY N/H horse can have symptoms, ranging from "what's that twitch in his flank?" to the horse thrashing around on the ground. Having a disease does not necessarily mean the horse will or will not be symptomatic - depends on the disease. Not having symptoms doesn't mean a disease is not present.


                      Traced to Impressive it is likely the result of too many crosses to too many relatives.
                      It is likely a genetic defect that became perpetuated. I have never heard of it being from too much line/inbreeding.

                      Seems more prevelent in those with heavier bodies but a refined head, neck and throatlatch, lots of high white, a bright coat color-usually chestnut but all the others too. In other words, the perfect QH show horse.
                      Color has nothing to do with it. The disease, especially the H/H form, can indeed cause that heavy halter-body look, but there are just as many light types that are either H/H or N/H.

                      Since AQHA restricts registration...I would be suspicious of no papers on a horse that looks like these do. I would even be suspicious of those with papers that look like this but don't seem to trace to Impressive-people lie when money is involved.
                      Registration is restricted to N/H and N/N horses. No H/H horses anymore. N/H horses are hopefully being disallowed soon. If I were to buy a horse of unknown breeding, or that was known to contain any QH or Paint blood, I would have him tested. Looks need to be left out, as a lean TB-looking QH can be HH or NH.
                      ______________________________
                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Over the Hill View Post
                        Just curious here, as I have no knowledge of HYPP. . . several years ago I bought a grade Paint mare ( without papers or history, obviously) for my granddaughters to ride when they visit for summer vacation and spring break. Recently had a neurologic episode with her where she could not get up on the first try after laying down. Called the vet, he suggested EPM, did the blood test and she tests positive for exposure. In talking this over with a friend who is heavily into Quarter Horses, she asked if the mare was a Quarter-cross, and if so did I have her tested. I did not, because it truly never entered my mind. She has a very broad build with lots of chest and good muscle throughout her body. Should I have her tested, just to be on the safe side? We are treating for EPM, since she shows no signs of other illness, but she also has not had difficulty for the past ten days.
                        I agree with what JB says and Yes, get her tested. That sounds more like HYPP to me than EPM. Had a horse with EPM also. Alot of horses will test positive for EPM even though it may not be what's causing the symptoms you're seeing. I agree that any type can have HYPP but mine was a well-muscled horse also, and of "halter" horse bloodlines. Everyone thought she was a gelding because of her muscles.
                        "Humans will never devise an invention more beautiful, more simple,
                        or more direct than does Nature." ~Leonardo da Vinci

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Over the Hill View Post
                          Just curious here, as I have no knowledge of HYPP. . . several years ago I bought a grade Paint mare ( without papers or history, obviously) for my granddaughters to ride when they visit for summer vacation and spring break. Recently had a neurologic episode with her where she could not get up on the first try after laying down. Called the vet, he suggested EPM, did the blood test and she tests positive for exposure. In talking this over with a friend who is heavily into Quarter Horses, she asked if the mare was a Quarter-cross, and if so did I have her tested. I did not, because it truly never entered my mind. She has a very broad build with lots of chest and good muscle throughout her body. Should I have her tested, just to be on the safe side? We are treating for EPM, since she shows no signs of other illness, but she also has not had difficulty for the past ten days.
                          Most Paints are QHs or QH crosses and Impressive threw alot of high white, some of his sons went to the APHA registry and some others, rumor has it, had their papers tampered with to reflect a different sire when the stuff hit the fan on the HYPP. So you cannot be sure, especially with no papers.

                          HOWEVER...if this mare of unknown breeding tested positive for EPM? That is more likely the cause of her episodes, especially with the good response to the EPM treatment. Test for HYPP if you want and your pocketbook allows, not expensive though. But probably unecessary.
                          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What does a HYPP test typically run ? I have a couple horses with QH blood in there somewhere but have never given the HYPP problem a thought.
                            I can explain it TO you,but I can't understand it FOR you

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JB View Post
                              If I were to buy a horse of unknown breeding, or that was known to contain any QH or Paint blood, I would have him tested.
                              Don't forget Appaloosas tend to be crossed with QHs as well since QHs are an acceptable outcross. There are loads of Appaloosas out there with Impressive in the bloodlines.
                              Altamont Sport Horses
                              Trakehners * Knabstruppers * Appaloosa Sport Horses
                              Home of stallions: Ambrosius af Asgard "Atlantis" & Hollywood Hot Spot
                              Birmingham, AL

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by jumpytoo View Post
                                What does a HYPP test typically run ? I have a couple horses with QH blood in there somewhere but have never given the HYPP problem a thought.
                                http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/hypp.php
                                "Humans will never devise an invention more beautiful, more simple,
                                or more direct than does Nature." ~Leonardo da Vinci

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Altamont Sport Horses View Post
                                  Don't forget Appaloosas tend to be crossed with QHs as well since QHs are an acceptable outcross. There are loads of Appaloosas out there with Impressive in the bloodlines.
                                  Yep, totally right, sorry I left them out
                                  ______________________________
                                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    personal anecdote only: Student had a N/H mare. Mare has narcolepsy-and EPSM-like symptoms. This was quite a while ago when EPSM was new to me, and biopsy wasn't really an option for the mare... but we tried The Diet.

                                    Symptoms improved dramatically.

                                    Now we certainly know more about the potassium... but...

                                    Simply anecdotally, I have heard of (via this forum and others) several Impressive breds who are not H/H who have similar stuff going on. Metabolicy/muscley stuff.

                                    Just FWIW for those reading this thread. For the OP, *I* would do my best on the diet, and be glad of no episodes and hope it stays that way. I wouldn't worry or loose sleep, but would be vigilant.
                                    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
                                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                                    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I had once an Impressive bred N/N colt and he had some kind of sweating and shaking problem.
                                      Sold him to a calf roper, before I could retest him, to be sure he really was N/N and that he was not having some kind of related problem.

                                      The roper that bought him was warned, but he was such a beautiful gray colt with much white and the price cheap that he had to have him right then.
                                      I hope he did test him and he really didn't have any other problem that a few loose screws upstairs.

                                      You can get your horse tested thru the AQHA. Request a testing kit.
                                      Good luck with an N/N result.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by JB View Post
                                        It is likely a genetic defect that became perpetuated. I have never heard of it being from too much line/inbreeding.
                                        Impressive was intensely linebred back to Three Bars (TB), hence some SPECULATION that all of that linebreeding could have contributed to Impressive's mutated gene.

                                        It's pretty well established that horses that are linebred to Impressive have a greater likelihood of being either H/H or N/H than those with a very limited amount of Impressive on their papers. Of course, ANY horse that goes back to Impressive runs a risk.

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