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Supplements or Legend/Adequan

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  • Supplements or Legend/Adequan

    Ok, I have an early teen horse. Currently sound for jumping 3'6". Doesn't get pounded, is in a good program, good footing and shoeing etc.

    The horse has ringbone. It isn't in the joint and hasn't affected any performance. I'd like to keep it that way as long as possible. Old owner had the horse on a supplment which as far as I can tell was mostly a vitamin supplment (http://royalchampion.com/ ) The premium plus equine supplement. It doesn't have much MSM, Gluc, or the normal players in it.

    What should I do? Should I give daily supplements? Should I do Adequan/Legend one or both? My vet said that really the only company which has solid research on oral supplements is Cosequin.

    If I'm feeding that, I'm almost the same cost to do Legend once a month.

    What would you do if this is your horse? I'm on a budget but if it means paying a bit more per month to keep the horse sound we'll do it.

  • #2
    Just FYI -- Legend is a temporary bandaid -- it's in the system for about 48 hours and then it's done, so it's just something you would give, say, before a show. Adequan is the long-lasting one, takes about six weeks for measurable effects to set in, so you would give it at regular intervals so it can do its job of lubrication and repair.
    Life doesn't have perfect footing.

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    • #3
      The Ancient Appaloosa got Cosequin, and it helped him, however I must have had the soundest chickens on the planet because he'd fling his grain everywhere.

      Nowadays I prefer to pay the vet to get the meds inside the horse where they belong.

      Anecdotally... Legend works for more than two days for Patrick. Dunno what's going on chemically or where it goes, but it's magic stuff.
      --
      Wendy
      ... and Patrick

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      • #4
        I would go with Adequan injections and add Legend when showing. I just had my horses hocks injected and the vet told me to give him Adequan IV every week for seven weeks. He is also on conquer gel (10cc) every other day.
        For the past two years I have done the Adequan protocol but this year (he is 20) he needed the hock injections.
        Also look into GLC 5500RX- it looks really promising, I put my guy on it but he broke out in hives.
        When his ringbone acts up use Surpass when not showing.

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        • #5
          The loading dose for Adequan is 5ml every 4 days for 28 days, which equals 7 5ml doses.

          Here's a cool article on Adequan v. Legend. I would also do Adequan on a regular basis and Legend when showing.
          Boyle Heights Kid 1998 16.1h OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
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          • Original Poster

            #6
            So, would you do the Adequan/Legend instead of daily supplements?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by hype View Post
              So, would you do the Adequan/Legend instead of daily supplements?
              Yes, most supplements are a waste of money.

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              • #8
                I do Adequan loading dose every four or five months and also use oral supplements, which have been extremely helpful. Lubrisyn for one.

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                • #9
                  Some horses you can see a notable difference on with a oral joint sup (have a couple on Cosequin ASU and I think it DOES help them, along with other therapies). But mostly, I think you get the most bang for your buck by using an injectable joint sup. I tried one of my horses on a Smartpak joint sup for a few months and never saw any difference. But can see a substantial difference about a day after giving him a shot of pentosan- another injectable joint sup option- (which I do every 3-4 weeks). And at $180 or so every few months, I can do both my horses with a lot less pain rather than the $50-60 a month for an oral sup. And once I'm down to one horse...a BIG financial difference!
                  Amanda

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by yellowbritches View Post
                    . But mostly, I think you get the most bang for your buck by using an injectable joint sup.
                    There is no such thing as an injectable supplement. These are drugs. They have the requirements of testing and controlled marketing as required by the FDA, unlike supplements which have no stipulation.

                    I bring this up because the when statements like this get used, ti tends to diminish and dilute the understanding required of the average horseman (and pros too) as to what is effective and what is not. NEVER confuse or equate a drug with a supplement.

                    Reed

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                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      I know that it is a drug. I'm wondering if I'm better to do the Adequan and Legend versus the oral supplements?

                      Any thoughts on which is better for ringbone?

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                      • #12
                        For supplements I would go with cosequin ASU. Probably better I would try and loading dose of adequan, pentosan or legend. Basically one at a time run a loading dose and see if you notice much difference. But if your horse is sound and not stiff that may be tough to determine.

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                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          I'm just wondering if any of these would help with prevention. We know the ringbone is there, we just want to keep it at bay as long as possible.

                          We did inject the joint but to our knowledge, it was the first time it has been injected.

                          I guess I'm looking for what would be the best for the horse as a preventative measure.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by hype View Post
                            I'm just wondering if any of these would help with prevention. We know the ringbone is there, we just want to keep it at bay as long as possible.

                            We did inject the joint but to our knowledge, it was the first time it has been injected.

                            I guess I'm looking for what would be the best for the horse as a preventative measure.
                            The lameness vet I use does not call it ring bone until there is changes present in the joint.

                            Did you inject because your horse was lame, stiff or sore. Generally radiographic changes do not always correlate lameness well, so if your horse is showing signs of soreness or lameness then injecting that joint would be sensible, then legend or adequan can be used to make the injections last longer. There has been some research that suggests ASU has a disease modifying effect.

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                            • #15
                              I would do a 28 day course of Adequan (every 4 days) and daily Cosequin.

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                              • #16
                                Unless the horse is lame or showing symptoms, I try to use the least invasive option first (i.e. oral supplements).

                                If I were feeling rich, I might do a single series (7 shots) of Adequan as well, but there is no way to know what is going to be the key for your particular horse. Every horse is different in what works for them. I do happen to think Cosequin is a really nice product, from what you're describing I would probably do that.

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                                • #17
                                  I had a lady i was riding for she had a 6 year old draft cross. She tried adequan and it didn't make any difference. He was retired from from jumping at 7 years old. But another lady at the same barn tried it too and it made a huge difference. Guess it just depends on the horse.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by hype View Post
                                    I know that it is a drug. I'm wondering if I'm better to do the Adequan and Legend versus the oral supplements?

                                    Any thoughts on which is better for ringbone?

                                    Niether. Ringbone is an inflammatory response. Yes, it is a form of osteoarthritis but it is a mineralization of tissue unlike a degradation of the cartilage with which Adequan and Legend work.


                                    I would say 'roids or other strong anti-inflammatory (Tildren/bisphosphonates or IRAP may be appropriate in this case) would be my choices.

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                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Those are pretty radical things, is there anything that might help keep it at bay? Knock on wood, we are doing pretty well at the moment...

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Niether. Ringbone is an inflammatory response. Yes, it is a form of osteoarthritis but it is a mineralization of tissue unlike a degradation of the cartilage with which Adequan and Legend work

                                        That is partially untrue. Yes, ringbone is a form of osteoarthritis, but it is not, in and of itself an inflammatory response. All arthritis (as with any damaged tissue) triggers an inflammatory response, and ringbone is no exception. Adequan and Legend work to maintain the joint integrity and while they will not fix Ringbone (nothing will) they do cut down on the inflammation associated with it. Generally speaking, Adequan works more on the surface of the joint where the cartilage is damaged (it is thought to actually delay cartilage degredation) and the Hyonate works more to increase lubrication in the joint and to cut down on the inflammation. Just do a google search on equine ringbone and treatment options.

                                        So, to answer your questions, you are way better off doing the Legend/Adequan shots than you are feeding anything. Of all the studies done, they have never been able to prove that anything gets past the gut barrier in the horse. With injections (I do mine IV) it goes straight from bloodstream into joints.

                                        I have an FEI horse with high and low ringbone on both legs. He does have his joints injected but I also do the Adequan IV three times per month plus Hyonate every two weeks for maintenance.

                                        I would get a super good farrier out to asess his feet and make sure he is shod according to what he needs to cope with the ringbone. Mine goes in bar shoes and I know they are bevelled for easier breakover. Long toes and/or underrun heels make ringbone more likely.
                                        Last edited by Donella; Jul. 18, 2011, 03:14 AM.
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