Sport Horse Spotlight

Fasino-12-16-07-175

Real Estate Spotlight

JR-1

Sale Spotlight

COTH_without Subscribe
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Dewormer question; clean fecals, Powerpak?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Dewormer question; clean fecals, Powerpak?

    My horses (I have four on my small farm) had good fecal results as of Feb 1.

    Specifically:

    two year old: 1 ascarid egg, 15 strongyle eggs
    three year old: 7 strongyle eggs
    seven year old: 1 strongyle egg
    ten year old: 0

    The vet's report said to PowerPak when weather got warm, which is now. Is the PowerPak for encysted strongyles?
    Rest in peace Claudius, we will miss you.

  • #2
    No, I would not do a PP. I don't really understand why the vet said to do that, other than just not being up to date.

    You COULD do one, but it's most likely a waste. What did you last deworm with, and when?

    Personally, and this is with the more recent recommendations, I would use Equimax. You need to get bots and tapeworms about twice a year - Spring and Fall, and for the bots you MUST use ivermectin or moxidectin. The tapes can be gotten with either praziquantel (ie Equimax, Quest Plus, I refuse to even entertain using Zimecterin Gold), or a double dose of pyrantel pamoate

    But if you use the dd of pp, you still have to come back with ivermectin or Quest.

    So, just do Equimax.

    But yes, the Power Pack is for encysted strongyles, which do not show up on FECs.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by JB View Post
      No, I would not do a PP. I don't really understand why the vet said to do that, other than just not being up to date.

      You COULD do one, but it's most likely a waste. What did you last deworm with, and when?

      Personally, and this is with the more recent recommendations, I would use Equimax. You need to get bots and tapeworms about twice a year - Spring and Fall, and for the bots you MUST use ivermectin or moxidectin. The tapes can be gotten with either praziquantel (ie Equimax, Quest Plus, I refuse to even entertain using Zimecterin Gold), or a double dose of pyrantel pamoate

      But if you use the dd of pp, you still have to come back with ivermectin or Quest.

      So, just do Equimax.

      But yes, the Power Pack is for encysted strongyles, which do not show up on FECs.
      So why would you not use the PP? Since that is what gets encysted's. I PP my every spring.

      The OP said gave the results of one fecal sample, isn't that somewhat meaningless as there was no history given? If the horses have been getting checked on a regular schedule then I would think it means something, but if has only been one fecal they should be going back and doing another right now? Right? Wrong? Maybe?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by davistina67 View Post
        So why would you not use the PP? Since that is what gets encysted's. I PP my every spring.
        well, my answer may change depending on what was used last, and when, but likely not. The reason I say no is because it's probably just not necessary.

        No, encysteds don't show on a FEC, but that doesn't automatically mean they are there either. For a horse with regular low/clean FECs, that means there is no or a very small encysted colony to begin with, otherwise at some point they would be emerging en masse and would show as a moderate-high FEC.

        Doing a PP as a matter of course is useless at best, and at worst, contributing to the continued and perhaps increasing resistance to it of strongyles.

        The OP said gave the results of one fecal sample, isn't that somewhat meaningless as there was no history given? If the horses have been getting checked on a regular schedule then I would think it means something, but if has only been one fecal they should be going back and doing another right now? Right? Wrong? Maybe?
        Which is why I ended with asking what/when
        ______________________________
        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks JB for the explanation. Another question based on what you said. You said "For a horse with regular low/clean FECs, that means there is no or a very small encysted colony to begin with, otherwise at some point they would be emerging en masse and would show as a moderate-high FEC" So if you do fecals every 2-3 months or whatever, how could you determine that there is no encysteds? Don't encysteds all mature at the same time so they would all shed at the same time and most likely be missed on FEC? Thanks!

          Comment


          • #6
            Adults don't just shed eggs once and they're done
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

            Comment


            • #7
              Thread hijack of sorts. My new horse had a clean fecal in Dec, I don't know what his history was. The vet also recommended a PP in the spring. Should I go ahead and do this, or go with Equimax?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by kcmel View Post
                Thread hijack of sorts. My new horse had a clean fecal in Dec, I don't know what his history was. The vet also recommended a PP in the spring. Should I go ahead and do this, or go with Equimax?
                Since you don't know the history I would think the one clean fecal is totally meaningless. You should of had a couple more fecals done by now. JB should be able to answer this but my understanding is with no history known, if you get a low count, you need to do two more to really find out more.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't think one clean FEC with no history is totally meaningless, but it's certainly not nearly as meaningful as knowing the history and/or past FEC results.

                  I agree - I would do another FEC now. *I* would have done one 2 weeks after that first one, but you can do it now.

                  If that one is high, then no question, use either Equimax or Quest Plus (if you can get it). If it's clean, then I would be very tempted to do another one in 2 weeks. Then regardless of that result, use Equimax or Quest Plus.

                  The reason for "regardless" is you need to get bots and tapeworms anyway, and you aren't going to find those on any FEC (unless you're super lucky and see a tapeworm segment).

                  But despite "regardless", you do want to get a history going
                  ______________________________
                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Has anyone else heard the Power pack is no longer effective? My vet states using it is a waste of time - He recommended I use Quest for the encysted/Quest + to hit the tapes.

                    Thoughts?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      A Power Pack is fenbendazole. Resistance to it of adult strongyles has been around quite a while now. That has made its way into resistance of the encysted strongyles as well.

                      Whether it's effective for *your* horses on *your*property is the question. If your horses are not carrying fen-resistant adult strongyles, the encysted ones won't be resistant.

                      But at this point it doesn't hurt to assume there is resistance. The more we can stay away from using these chemicals (there are situations you HAVE to use them, ie double dosing foals for ascarids) the greater the chance we have of having them return to effectiveness.
                      ______________________________
                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thx for the info, I get seriously confused with worming!

                        So I can "assume" that if my guys once had an issue with encysted (a couple of years ago - which I treated with a power pack) and I had fenbendazole in my rotation, that they were developing a resistance?

                        I've heard people say they are ONLY using Quest now, which doesn't make sense to me - am I off base there?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 2BayPonies View Post
                          So I can "assume" that if my guys once had an issue with encysted (a couple of years ago - which I treated with a power pack) and I had fenbendazole in my rotation, that they were developing a resistance?
                          It depends LOL Having a relatively low immunity to parasites, and using fenbendazole in a rotation at a single dose, with it's high and widespread resistance, you could very well have allowed enough encysted strongyles to come into play.

                          If the immunity was relatively high, then there weren't enough strongyles in the picture to really develop an encysted problem, and the fenbendazole was just a waste of $$

                          I've heard people say they are ONLY using Quest now, which doesn't make sense to me - am I off base there?
                          Well, that one is hard to say right now. To rotate or not between ivermectin and moxidectin is something that's debatable right now, AFAIK. They're the same class of chemical, which makes it less desirable to only use one or the other or even both, but OTOH, they are the ONLY broad-spectrum chemicals which are effective, so you can't really get away from using them twice a year.

                          Personally, I'd say alternate. While they are the same class, they ARE different (moxidectin kills encysted strongyles, ivermectin doesn't), and for that reason alone *I* think it's worth rotating. But what do I know
                          ______________________________
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Clearly, you know quite a lot! I really appreciate the info.

                            I've got to get a fecal done in the next week or so -and will base my plan on what that tells me. A gal could go crazy(er) trying to figure this out!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It seems like a lot at first, but once you understand some basics, it really becomes very simply actually

                              Spring and Fall use either ivermectin/praziquantel or moxidectin/praziquantel. There are exceptions of course.

                              Get a FEC done before you do either of those, at the very least. A low/no count won't have you NOT doing those dewormings, but they DO provide history and do help you make sure what you are doing is working. If, for example, you came out of Winter with a high count, then after the deworming, instead of waiting until mid-end of Sept or so for the next FEC, you'd want to do another one 12 weeks later. And for the next Winter, you may want to do one earlier to see when/if the horse starts increasing that count
                              ______________________________
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                OP back in! My first post showed good FECs in Feb 2011 (as posted above). Their next most recent FEC was Sept 2010, and they were perfectly clean, except the (now) two year old had four strongyles.

                                As far as worming history, they all had Equimax last fall. The three older ones had a PowerPak March 2010 (I did not have the baby yet). Before that, Quest in July 2009. The seven year old also had some dd of Equimax trying to get rid of neck threadworms last summer.

                                I am willing to do as JB recommends above (Equimax instead of PowerPak), but sort of scary.... how do I know they don't have encysted strongyles? Is the FEC two weeks apart the best way to know if there are encysted strongyles?
                                Rest in peace Claudius, we will miss you.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  4 strongyles is a very low count - not worth worrying about. So, you have a clean/low FEC in Sept '10 and Feb '11, with an Equimax inbetween. Textbook so far

                                  AND, you did a PP March '10, and Quest (moxidectin, so also killed encysted strongyles) roughly a year before that. Perfect.

                                  There is no reason to suspect encysted strongyles, nothing worth worrying about, at this point. IMVHO, you are going to be just fine with "just" the Equimax
                                  ______________________________
                                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I sometimes think I'm getting it, then hear some new info & run screaming to the barn & bury my head LOL

                                    Thx again for the info, very helpful!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Sorry to hijack OP - gotta pounce on these knowledgeable folks when they show themselves

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I showed myself? Isn't that illegal in most states?
                                        ______________________________
                                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X