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Severe Tying Up/Laminitis - She's Gone 3/20

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  • Severe Tying Up/Laminitis - She's Gone 3/20

    COTH disclaimer: Not my horse and the vet has already been called.

    Young (4 yrs) QH mare. Went foxhunting this weekend. Has been out several times this season. Today wasn't an especially long/fast hunt. On the way home (7 hr drive), mare went down three times in the trailer and was trembling/quivering. Owner initially thought she was colicing and gave banamine and got home ASAP. Since getting home, mare has repeatedly gone down and seems to be having some type of msucle spasms/seizures/convulsions when she does so. Owners have given banamine and electrolytes and have a call in to the vet.

    I've never seen a horse tie up this badly. Does that sound like what this is, or could it be something else? Mare is not pawing, rolling, or otherwise showing signs of colic. She is too unstable to get a temp or HR.

    Any ideas? I'll be sure to update once I hear what the vet says, but in the mean time was wondering if anyone else had ever had a similar experience.
    Last edited by Montanas_Girl; Mar. 20, 2011, 02:31 PM.

  • #2
    iirc A shot of RVI helped a lot when my mare used to tie up many years ago. Hope your girl is o-kay.

    Comment


    • #3
      Poor horse--what color urine?

      mine was severely Selenium defficient when he tied up. It was a miserable experience all round.

      RVI is pretty much impossible to find at the moment, unfortunately.

      Couldn't be HYPP could it?

      Best wishes to your friend and the horse.

      Comment


      • #4
        HYPP? The going down and the muscle spasms would make me question HYPP status.

        Hope the horse gets better soon!

        Comment


        • #5
          How frequently does the horse work between hunts? That sounds like a really terrifying trailer ride. Did she drive 7 hours then hunt then 7 hours home again?

          Did the vet get there quickly? Jeekers. What color was/is the urine? How hard are the rump muscles? Could the mare walk by the time they got home?

          I hope she's OK. Update soon if you can.......
          Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hopefully the vet will be coming out to take a blood sample. It could be a severe case of tying up and if it was, banamine was a good call.

            I hope the horse is doing better by now and that it was indeed a bad case of tying up and nothing else. If it was, I suggest your friend have the horse's diet analzyed to make sure there are not deficiencies. If it happens again, a muscle biopsy may be in order.

            Sending jingles to your friend and her horse for a healthy outcome.
            Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
            http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
            http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Montanas_Girl View Post
              COTH disclaimer: Not my horse and the vet has already been called.

              Young (4 yrs) QH mare.

              Any ideas? I'll be sure to update once I hear what the vet says, but in the mean time was wondering if anyone else had ever had a similar experience.
              Sounds suspicious for HYPP. Could be tying up but I would see if she is related to Impressive in any way. (Conclusive, Awesome Mister, Intimidator,Mr. Conclusion, Kid Clu) If Impressive is even 10 generations back make sure she is HYPP negative or that side of her pedigree is. AQHA now requires it on the papers so it might be on there.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by atr View Post
                Poor horse--what color urine?

                mine was severely Selenium defficient when he tied up. It was a miserable experience all round.

                RVI is pretty much impossible to find at the moment, unfortunately.

                Couldn't be HYPP could it?

                Best wishes to your friend and the horse.
                I was looking for RVI recently and they said they stopped production for awhile. Do you know if they started it again?

                Comment


                • #9
                  EPSM?
                  or is it possible the horse was just not in great shape and overworked, then made stand still for 7 hours?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Doctracy View Post
                    Sounds suspicious for HYPP. Could be tying up but I would see if she is related to Impressive in any way. (Conclusive, Awesome Mister, Intimidator,Mr. Conclusion, Kid Clu) If Impressive is even 10 generations back make sure she is HYPP negative or that side of her pedigree is. AQHA now requires it on the papers so it might be on there.
                    Amen!!
                    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                    Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Hey, guys.

                      Thanks for the thoughts. Between this horse, the severe weather, and a stomach bug that I've picked up, I've had almost no sleep.

                      HYPP was one of my first thoughts, but I do not believe this mare is positive. Both owners are PhD's - one in equine nutrition and one in equine reproduction - so I would hope/think that base was already covered, but I'll mention it the next time we talk.

                      The mare normally gets worked 3-4 times per week between hunts. They drove down on Friday night, hunted Saturday and Sunday morning, then drove back Sunday afternoon. Owner is of course feeling guilty because of the long trailer ride (made longer due to a tire blowout halfway home), but I have no idea if that had anything to do with the situation or not.

                      They were able to get the mare sedated enough to keep her quiet and on her feet overnight, but she is still trembling and has now started to colic on top of everything else. Her urine was originally cola colored but is starting to lighten up. She drank 10 gallons of water between getting home last night and this morning but will not eat and has not passed manure since before she got on the trailer. A vet has been contacted, but the area is currently under a tornado warning, so getting one out or getting her on a trailer will probably be delayed until the severe weather passes.

                      Given that new information, it does sound like she initially tied up severely and is now colicing due to the stress/pain, I think. I'll keep you guys updated on what the vet says when he is finally able to get out there.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        tying up

                        If the horse is tying up and her urine is dark she needs IV fluids to save her kidneys. The urine is dark because she is spilling blood. If she is looks like she is colicing it is pain because her kidneys are shutting down. Get her to any vet who can administer IV fluids ASAP.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Absolutely the mare needs fluids, and the owner is working on making that happen as soon as possible. However, it would not be safe to try to transport her right now with 60 mph winds and 1/2" hail falling. She has been on the phone with the vet off and on all night and will either get her to the clinic or have someone out there as soon as it is safe to do so. At least she has been drinking, so she is at least not becoming any more dehydrated in the mean time.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Check with local hospital and see if any docs are horse people....I had one come out and bring bags of IV fluids and get a catheter in and taped/stitched in place when we couldn't haul due to weather and vet being long distance. I was fine with it, vet was fine with it and doc was fine with it so no legal repercussions. Probably saved the horse. LOTS of medical folks are also horse folks....seems to be for their mental health.
                            Colored Cowhorse Ranch
                            www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
                            Northern NV

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think that the dark urine is from muscle breaking down, if it is tying up.
                              There are other metabolic disorders than HYPP, although I would test for that also.
                              You can't always believe the breeding on the papers, especially if you have a horse with similar to HYPP symptoms.

                              I think they also can test for other metabolic disorders at the U of Davis in CA, ask about that, if she makes it.
                              Some require a muscle biopsy.

                              Looks like she crashed badly and it will be touch and go.
                              A friend lost one TB race mare that truly tied up, very badly and they didn't find her until a few hours later, when too much damage was done.

                              Hope all goes ok for this mare.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                The last word I had was that the vet was on the way. The mare was still extremely depressed, lethargic, and uncomfortable. She was still not eating, hadn't passed anything, and was no longer drinking well. I was able to find out that she is not Impressive bred, so HYPP is extremely unlikely.

                                Hopefully I will hear soon how the vet visit went. Please send some jingles to middle TN for this poor sweet little mare. We are very worried about her.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  So, the vet was out early this afternoon and did a physical exam and pulled blood. Everything is consistent with an exceptionally bad case of tying up. The colic symptoms seem to most likely be a reaction to the pain and stress of this whole ordeal.

                                  TPR were normal. Her muscle enzymes were so high they were literally off the charts - unreadable by the assay this clinic uses. Hematocrit is low but not scary yet (43). Electrolytes are all extremely low. White cell count is also low, for unknow reasons.

                                  Mare is to stay on Banamine and oral electrolytes through the night. If she does not seem to improve, pass any manure, or start eating by tomorrow, then the vet wants her at the clinic for IV fluid and electrolyte treatment. The big worries are a serious colic developing secondary to the tying up/dehydration and also kidney damage from the dehydration. Things do not look great for poor little Lila right now.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Checking selenium levels would be a good idea... Poor girl...
                                    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                                    ---
                                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Poor girl. I am all too familiar with a tying up horse and it's not fun to experience. My mare used to tie up recurrently until I discovered info about EPSM on the internet and started treating her as an EPSM case. She'll have to be carefully managed for the rest of her life.
                                      Happiness is the sweet smell of horses, leather, and hay.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Montanas_Girl View Post
                                        Absolutely the mare needs fluids, and the owner is working on making that happen as soon as possible. However, it would not be safe to try to transport her right now with 60 mph winds and 1/2" hail falling. She has been on the phone with the vet off and on all night and will either get her to the clinic or have someone out there as soon as it is safe to do so. At least she has been drinking, so she is at least not becoming any more dehydrated in the mean time.
                                        In that situation a hefty dose of ace can sometimes help.
                                        Sounds awful, poor thing. My TB tied up from dehydration after a very difficult hunt one time and he had pain for probably 6-8 weeks. The RVI and robin really helped him, once he was out of the woods. Careful with the NSAIDs like banaMine and bute, I believe they can stress already stressed kidneys.
                                        I hope she pulls through, jingles from AZ!
                                        Last edited by Doctracy; Feb. 28, 2011, 11:12 PM.

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