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Farrier won't give estimate

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  • #21
    If that is her concern, then truly, she buys him and puts the shoes on according to what her vet feels needs to be done based on the xrays.

    You putting the shoes on are not going to do anything for the horse. He either jumps now, or he doesn't, he either has the propensity for it (I'm assuming he does or she wouldn't be interested) or he doesn't. Shoes won't make or break him jumping LOL Not in the next few months anyway.

    There is absolutely nothing, nada, zilch, that you putting the shoes on this horse will do to affect whether he can or can't jump for her in the future, that cannot be done (or not) by her putting them on after buying him.

    I guess I don't understand her (her vet's?) reasoning on why YOU should do the shoeing

    I know it probably comes down to the principle of the thing, but this isn't your problem, really. But if it's $200 or less and it guarantees the sale, why not.

    You could tell her you want the cost of the shoeing to be put down as a deposit, and if she backs out after it's done, she doesn't get it back. If she buys him, that money goes towards his purchase price.
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


    • #22
      Originally posted by Oakstable View Post
      I would be totally comfy with the farrier I mentioned since I know him personally and know his reputation. He's been a farrier in the 20-30 year category.

      My current farrier rode with that guy before he went out on his own (maybe two years ago).

      The concern for this buyer is that she wants to jump. She loves this horse and wants some reassurance that he has a reasonable chance of staying sound for the long term.
      It reassures me that you know and like the farrier in charge of all this. Usually I'm wary of a vet prescribing a change that is supposed to answer a question quickly. Most farriers will tell you change is best done slowly and/or won't tell you what you want in a single shoeing.

      But if you trust the farrier to try something that won't hurt the horse and it pleases the buyer, why not do your best to accommodate them? If the buyer places a great deal of faith in the quick fix to whatever she thinks the problem is, whatever (more or less), right? If she loves the horse and plans a long term relationship with the horse, that's all good.
      The armchair saddler
      Politically Pro-Cat


      • Original Poster

        The farrier I know and trust is not in the loop at this time.


        • #24
          Originally posted by Oakstable View Post
          I am extremely uncomfortable. I feel backed into a corner.

          It might be one thing if the horse was exhibiting soundness problems, but this is a prevention issue.

          If the buyer decides to pass on the horse, perhaps she will sell me the rads and I can get another vet/farrier.

          I've never had a vet involved in shoeing choices so I don't know how exacting this needs to be.
          Is this your horse? Is this your vet? I'm puzzled by the "buyer owns the radiographs" part, but that you would be paying for shoes.
          Inner Bay Equestrian



          • #25
            I'm also confused as to why you would be paying for these shoes. As others have said, if nothing is wrong now and it's just to prevent something that might possibly become an issue in the future, a couple of months or whatever until the buyer takes possession most likely won't matter.

            I also wouldn't change a shoeing protocol that is working on the advice of a veterinarian other than my own. Your vet knows the horse, knows his history and all. The vet doing the PPE really only knows how he looked on that one day. And I'm not sure what the issue is of course, but one set of radiographs on a sound horse often really doesn't mean that much. Typically what I have seen done in situations like that are a series of rads to keep an eye on the progression of the issue before any drastic changes are made.

            If you are worried about the issue, I would recommend consulting with your regular vet and farrier, and possibly other experts they want to bring in (ie. if your farrier doesn't do therapeutic shoeing and recommends you use someone else) before you change anything.

            If you are pretty sure she wants to buy the horse and the shoes would help that sale, I like JB's suggestion of having her put the money up for the shoes as a sort of deposit. She doesn't get it back if she doesn't buy the horse, but you'll discount the purchase price accordingly if she does. Still, personally would not change the shoeing of one of my horses just to make a sale. The buyer can do that once they take possession if they think it is necessary.

            edit: As to your original question, I've known very few farriers who would give an estimate for a specialized job like that over the phone. Most will give you a base prices (ie. you need 4 shoes with pads, it will be a minimum of $X) but won't be able to give a more accurate price until they see the horse and the rads and figure out exactly what needs to be done.
            exploring the relationship between horse and human


            • #26
              NO, NO, and NO. This is not normal protocol when buying/selling the horse. What I would recommend in this situation is that the potential buyer "lease" the horse for a month, and if you trust the farrier, during that month she can shoe the horse and put him through his paces. Otherwise, if the horse is sound as you say and not reactive to hoof testers I wouldn't put shoes on at this time. Some roughening around the coffin bone (pedal osteitis) is not a big deal on the x-rays if the horse is not symptomatic.


              • #27
                I wouldn't bring a new farrier in to shoe a horse to suit a potential buyer.
                Heck no.

                If she's this much on the fence, she doesn't want this horse. She just doesn't know it yet.


                • #28
                  I would not have an unknown farrier show a horse based on films you haven't seen. Who knows whether this would help or hurt the horse.

                  I would tell the prospective buyer that you would consider shoeing the horse differently if she shares the films with your vet and your farrier and they agree with the recommendation.
                  Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                  EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.


                  • #29
                    Any update? Inquiring minds want to know.
                    "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by M. O'Connor View Post
                      Is this your horse? Is this your vet? I'm puzzled by the "buyer owns the radiographs" part, but that you would be paying for shoes.
                      I, too, am interested in what happened.

                      As for "buyer owns the radiographs", the veterinarian involved was hired and paid by the buyer, not the OP, to take radiographs, and therefore can not ethically (and probably not legally) release the radiographs to the OP without the express permission of the buyer due to confidentiality restrictions. The veterinarian-client-patient relationship (VCPR) in this case exists between the vet, the buyer, and the seller's horse. In many cases, the buyer may choose to share the radiographs with the seller, but they may choose not to, and the vet and the seller can't do much about it.
                      The plural of anecdote is not data.
                      Eventing Yahoo In Training


                      • #31
                        Not the same, but maybe it will give you an idea?

                        My old farrier came out to fix a sucktastic job that my regular farrier had done.

                        He ended up doing a little customising of shoes at his place.

                        All told, he came out 5 times, (Once to see and go , once to pull shoes and trim so we could try to leave her barefoot, once to put shoes back ON the princess, once to try newly-made shoes on and once to nail them on after he tweaked them a bit.), did front shoes and cost me $200.00.

                        Best $200.00 EVER. I had already spent more than that on x-rays of her feet and legs, trying to pinpoint a mystery lameness...which was actually her shoeing job.

                        Maybe that helps?

                        Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.


                        • Original Poster

                          I asked my trainer to cancel the appointment with this farrier. I do not have his phone number. The vet who recommended him has not responded to my request for his phone number.

                          More later.


                          • #33
                            I have never heard of a situation like this. If the horse is sound now, I would not be paying to put shoes on it. If the buyer wants to shoe the horse AFTER she buys it, that's entirely up to her. I would tell her take it or leave it. What unnecessary things will they ask for next? For you to have a custom saddle made for her so she knows that the saddle fit will work before buying the horse? It remains to be seen whether shoeing would actually help the horse (and I would seriously question that notion if the horse is in work and sound), but either way it is not your responsibility to find out. Crazy.


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by mjmvet View Post
                              I have never heard of a situation like this. If the horse is sound now, I would not be paying to put shoes on it. If the buyer wants to shoe the horse AFTER she buys it, that's entirely up to her. I would tell her take it or leave it. What unnecessary things will they ask for next? For you to have a custom saddle made for her so she knows that the saddle fit will work before buying the horse? It remains to be seen whether shoeing would actually help the horse (and I would seriously question that notion if the horse is in work and sound), but either way it is not your responsibility to find out. Crazy.
                              Totally agree with this. I have had people buy horses from me and I will make sure the horse is UTD on vaccines/ coggins/ trim. But anything beyond that is up to the buyer.
                              Pro Slaughter
                              Anti Parelli


                              • #35
                                This isn't her first horse, by any chance, is it? There are NEVER any guarantees - a prefectly sound horse can step in a hole in the field and tear a tendon and that may be it. Sounds like she needs to talk to an experienced horseperson that she trusts.


                                • #36
                                  I'd be feeling pretty creeped out by this too, OP.

                                  I'm with JB though. The horse is currently sound. If the buyer wants the horse to do something other than what it's already doing and feels it needs a special shoeing job to do it, that is her risk to take, not yours. She can buy the horse and put whatever contraption she wants on its feet, but she does not get to dictate to you how you shoe your horse.

                                  You know if you had this horse shod the way buyer wants, and horse becomes lame, buyer will be GONE, and you'll be stuck with a big shoeing bill and a lame horse.

                                  Buyer either needs to develop some more realistic expectations or she needs to find a different horse.

                                  Good luck.
                                  Full-time bargain hunter.


                                  • Original Poster

                                    Buyer is not going through with the purchase but is selling me the radiographs.

                                    Meanwhile the horse is in training, working hard, doing great, and we're getting ready for a show in a few weeks.


                                    • #38
                                      Sounds like a good resolution. The right buyer will come along.
                                      Full-time bargain hunter.