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Contribute (fish oil) by KPP, horses won't touch feed, back to flax oil :(.

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  • Contribute (fish oil) by KPP, horses won't touch feed, back to flax oil :(.

    http://www.kppusa.com/contribute_ingred.htm
    I was so excited when I found this one, high O3 per 1 oz.
    But yeah of course, they pulled their nose up .

    I guess back to flax oil .

    Does anyone else feed either a combo of flax & fish oil or straight fish oil, if so which one and is the horse readily eating it?
    I'm tempted to try Welactin or Wellpride, but if they yet again don't touch it, then I've got another wasted bottle.

    Any one tried Seabuckthorn? Was that readily eaten by your horse?
    Last edited by Lieslot; Jan. 31, 2011, 07:05 AM.

  • #2
    Why would you rather have them on fish oil than on flax? Aside from cost, perhaps?

    If they eat the flax and don't eat the fish oil, then the cost of the fish oil is irrelevant.
    "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      I figured I needed to feed less fish oil (only 1 oz) a day for higher amount of O3 vs cup(s) of flax.

      I'm trying to figure out the mg's of O3 in 1oz of flax oil vs 1oz of fish oil. Maybe my theory was wrong to begin with .

      They used to happily eat hemp, which is 3:1, but I was hoping to improve on that.
      Pure flax oil is expensive too and difficult to find by the gallon.

      Comment


      • #4
        One of my vets told me that research has shown that horses are not very efficient at converting the short chain omegas in flax seed to the more desirable long chain omegas in fish oil. So, he says to just feed fish oil (the best is wild caught north atlantic salmon oil. Or so I've been told by a human nutritionist).
        "The mighty oak is a nut who stood its ground"

        "...you'll never win Olympic gold by shaking a carrot stick at a warmblood..." see u at x

        Comment


        • #5
          I feed my horses three quarter cup of ground daily. My feed company automatically balances the omega 3 and omega six in the flax I buy. I actually don`t like omega six and I believe it can increase inflammation where as omega three reduces it.

          Comment


          • #6
            I feed KER's 'EO-3', fish oil for horses.

            http://www.kerx.com/products/EO3/info.html

            It's a lot less expensive than other fish oil products for horses, which are solid or pelleted. This one is liquid and you pour it right onto the feed. It doesn't smell fishy it's has some kind of fruity flavor added. No problems with eating it. Besides the expense the idea of converting fish oil to a pellet does not appeal to me, I would think it would undergo undesirable changes to the composition.

            Does the Contribute have a fishy smell, or why do you think they didn't like it?

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              I don't know why they are not eating it, totally surprised me. To me it doesn't smell fishy but caramel-like. I will try feeding 1/2oz & see if that helps. They are usually not picky at all. .

              I just looked up KER's O3. Interesting, might be worth a try, it says 'highly palatable'.


              Stacie, interesting remark you make, I tried to find something back in that regard, and ran into this : p115 on top left.
              http://books.google.com/books?id=qTt...0horse&f=false

              Seems flax increases plasma concentration of EPA, but not of DHA. I don't quite know (or understand is probably more like it ) whether this is due to flax and short chain acids or whether long chain acids in fish oil would also increase DHA plasma concentration.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Okay, got answer to my own question, .
                Article about humans, but considering the above link mentioned similar in horses, I guess it's valid for both.

                Flax's ALA will convert to EPA, but higher amounts of flax's O3s needed vs fish oil's O3s to do so.
                And Flax's ALA will not convert do DHA, fish oil being EPA & DHA will increase DHA bloodlevels.
                http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/n...fish-oil-pills

                So stupid horses of mine, just eat the damn fish oil will ya
                This morning I tried 1/2oz of Contribute and they ate it with not so much gusto. And no bucket licking, plus some leftovers . Maybe they'll get used to the taste over time.
                Admittedly I smelled the feed once mixed and there was some fish odor to it, even at the smaller dose of 1/2oz.

                I wonder if Ker, has a tiny trial size or so, that way I wouldn't be stuck with another gallon of something they may not be happy about.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I use SmartOmega 3. It has both flax and fish oil and comes in granules. My picky mare eats it right up, and it's cheap too.

                  Caitlin
                  Caitlin
                  *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
                  http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Caitlin, do you have a website for purchasing that smart omega 3?
                    Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Smartpak has Smartshine Ultra. Contains fish oil and flax in a flavored base.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        SmartOmega3. My guys love it. They would eat it as a treat if I let them.

                        It's at smartpakequine.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          research has shown that horses are not very efficient at converting the short chain omegas in flax seed to the more desirable long chain omegas in fish oil.
                          Maybe there's a good biological reason for this, and we shouldn't try to force omnivore standards (and food products) onto herbivores.
                          Click here before you buy.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            You've got a point DW, fish oil is *not* natural to a horse, and that has passed my mind too.

                            On the other hand I don't want RAO horsey on prednisolone, longterm it's not a good idea and those meds aren't natural to a horse either, hence I figured at least there is some research behind O3, admittedly not cast in stone.
                            And the other horsey has arthritis issue of all kinds, so every little bit helps.

                            This just got me wondering. We often talk about Dr Green, aka turn out on nice grass and lame horsey goes sound f.ex. Fresh grass contains O3's too, I just wonder how much of an anti-inflammatory effect do the grass O3's have on the horse. I take it the O3's in grass are also ALA, in which case they wouldn't convert to DHA either one would have thought. And how much of the O3's is lost in hay and how to replace those.
                            And do we (human & horse) need DHA, to convert the omega's to PG1 & PG3, coz if I understood it correctly that's where the anti-inflammotary benefit may be found. (edited to add, found the explanation of O3s to PG's here http://hopes.stanford.edu/n3615/drug...on/omega-3-fat)
                            If EPA (after been converted from ALA) does so too, it may not be necessary, hence I guess flax at higher doses & grass would do okay too then (well that's in my simple non-educated world)


                            AHHH SmartOmega3 from SmartPak, why didn't I think of that, DUH. I have seen it before, just didn't sink in I guess. I bet they'll eat that.
                            Last edited by Lieslot; Jan. 31, 2011, 11:07 AM.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Uhhh, could this be a typo on SmartPak's website? If not, SmartOmega 3 seems a bit of a joke however.

                              Per serving :
                              EPA 21mg
                              DHA 14mg
                              http://www.smartpakequine.com/Produc...151#fulldetail

                              vs Wellpride f.ex.
                              EPA 4,500mg
                              DHA 3,000mg
                              http://www.wellpride.com/label.php

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Okay so are you going to force me to post my link to the The Horse article in which the author describes how Icelandic horses happily munch herring out of large tubs? (I've posted it before and people express extravagant disgust).

                                Horses can eat meat and fish (in the sense that they can derive good nutrition from meat), and some obviously do, and some do so with a Nero Wolfe-ian gusto.

                                But, if your horse(s) won't eat the fish oil, it really doesn't matter how good it is for them.
                                "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                                  Maybe there's a good biological reason for this, and we shouldn't try to force omnivore standards (and food products) onto herbivores.
                                  Thank god someone said this. And as a by note, the thought of feeding fish oil to a herbivore makes me gag!
                                  "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                                  ---
                                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Posting Trot
                                    But, if your horse(s) won't eat the fish oil, it really doesn't matter how good it is for them.
                                    I know .... -sigh-.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I just wonder how much of an anti-inflammatory effect do the grass O3's have on the horse. I take it the O3's in grass are also ALA, in which case they wouldn't convert to DHA either one would have thought. And how much of the O3's is lost in hay and how to replace those.
                                      And do we (human & horse) need DHA, to convert the omega's to PG1 & PG3, coz if I understood it correctly that's where the anti-inflammotary benefit may be found.
                                      I think the key words here are "MAY BE FOUND". It is not (IMO) likely to be quite as easy as it seems in terms of using these products (naturally-occurring or otherwise) to "prevent" or "treat" inflammation, like they are a pharmaceutical or something. "Just pop a few fish oil tabs and that hot leg will just go down!", etc. Just like the term "immune system booster", I'm just not convinced the anti-inflammatory properties of Omega-3 fatty acids are a simple, binary "on/off" thing. Inflammation is VITAL to many normal bodily functions. There is no healing without it, and to some degree it exists in a very delicate homeostasis in probably every conceivable organ system. We mess with it at our great peril. In fact, the parallel to corticosteroids is very useful, because they DO shut down inflammation far and wide, often with good effect but also with potentially devastating side effects.

                                      Not that I think Omega-3s are the potent anti-inflammatories in vivo that they are touted to be, and I certainly do NOT think they are harmful, although I don't know if there are any good data about excessive dosing, but my general caution when reading these threads is that people not consider them any sort of miracle. No doubt they are important, but I still wonder if mega-dosing is really all that useful.

                                      So if my horse refused to eat fish oil (I wouldn't be inclined to offer it to them anyhow) I wouldn't feel too badly.
                                      Click here before you buy.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I gave Wellpride to my VERY picking eater after calling and speaking with a company rep who offered me a money back guarantee he would eat it. It smells vaguely like baby aspirin (albeit fishy baby aspirin), my horse LOVED it. LOVED. IT. (he does also love oranges so maybe there is something to that.) Anyways, I put him on it with the hopes of seeing better hoof growth. After three months I saw no change whatsoever so I discontinued feeding it to him. (much to his dismay I suspect )

                                        Comment

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