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Beet Pulp, Ration Balancer (Triple Crown), timothy alfalfa hay...how much?

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  • Beet Pulp, Ration Balancer (Triple Crown), timothy alfalfa hay...how much?

    In the continuing saga of "feed" with Rasta Mon, we are presently in a good zone - no gas, good attitude, sane OTTB (but still has OTTB moments ). Here's what my 15.1 pony is presently getting twice a day: 2 cups shredded BP (then soaked in 4 cups water), 3 3/4 cups Triple Crown Lite, and 2-3 flakes of crappy orchard alfalfa hay ...also gets a couple more flakes of hay during day, and during night. He is ridden 5-6 days a week depending on how much the south wants to copy the north and be icey . I am thinking of adding a fat source because Rasta does look more ribby than usual - probably corn oil. So, should I also up the BP?
    ~ it no longer matters what level I do, as long as I am doing it..~ with many thanks, to Elizabeth Callahan

  • #2
    You could up the beet pulp or add a fat supplement, such as rice bran.
    Kim
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    • #3
      How much by weight? Volume tells us nothing.

      For a TB that is not enough food. Mine eats about 15 lbs of alfalfa cubes a day, split into 4-5 feedings, in a toy that he rolls around to get the cubes out. Then in the late afternoon he gets a 30 lb beet pulp mush (starts out as 5-6lbs dry), with his vitamins and salt in it. My horse is maybe 16.0h, ridden by my trainer 4 days a week or so. He probably weights between 1100 and 1200 lbs. He is not fat at all.

      Smaller older TB in the barn, gets the same amount of beet pulp, Trifecta vitamins, a cup of Cocosoya oil, and 20lbs of timothy hay and 3-5lbs of alfalfa. He might also get a couple of pounds of LMF senior. He might weigh 1,000lbs and is working on gaining weight.

      I would up the beet pulp to some significant amount, cups of shreds can't be much by weight at all.

      Figure out how much he weighs, and feed him by % of body weight. Forage should be 1-2% of his body weight daily. If he needs to gain weight figure it on what he should weigh plus some to get him there. A 1,000 lb horse should be eating 10-20lbs of forage a day, good quality forage and that includes beet pulp. TBs typically cost more to feed than warmbloods even though the warmbloods are bigger they don't seem to burn through the calories.

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      • #4
        Not a big fan of oil in general. If you really want to use oil, try cocosoya oil, it has a better omega 3 to 6 ratio. I would up the beet pulp and see what happens before adding another fat source. You're really not giving him that much right now. I wouldn't hesitate to double the beet pulp and then wait a few weeks to see if he starts to gain. If he doesn't, my "favorite" weight gain supplement is Amplify. But before you added an actual supplement, try adding alfalfa pellets at a pound or so a day.

        ETA: Seal Harbor, not all Thoroughbreds are hard keepers, I think it's unfair to assume it's not enough feed because he is a TB.
        come what may

        Rest in peace great mare, 1987-2013

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        • #5
          I would look at rice bran or maybe some soaked alfalfa cubes/pellets
          Epona Farm
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          • #6
            "Crappy hay" - I would up the quality and the quantity of hay. And like you did mention - split feedings as much as is possible throughout the day/evenings.

            Also increase the beet pulp. Like said the additon of Amplify, or of something like Envision http://www.prognutrition.com/envisionclassic.html
            Don't let anyone tell you that your ideas or dreams are foolish. There is a millionaire walking around who invented the pool noodle.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Sundance_Solo View Post
              Not a big fan of oil in general. If you really want to use oil, try cocosoya oil, it has a better omega 3 to 6 ratio. I would up the beet pulp and see what happens before adding another fat source. You're really not giving him that much right now. I wouldn't hesitate to double the beet pulp and then wait a few weeks to see if he starts to gain. If he doesn't, my "favorite" weight gain supplement is Amplify. But before you added an actual supplement, try adding alfalfa pellets at a pound or so a day.

              ETA: Seal Harbor, not all Thoroughbreds are hard keepers, I think it's unfair to assume it's not enough feed because he is a TB.
              Where does it say ALL TBs? It says TYPICALLY TBs are hard keepers. I've owned more than one over 50 years, TYPICALLY they eat more than warmbloods. There are 7 where my horse is now, they happen to ALL eat more than the warmbloods, even the 18+ hand one. The bulk of the "more" being made up of beet pulp.

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              • #8
                For a TB that is not enough food.
                This, this made me assume you were referring to all Thoroughbreds.
                I was just pointing out that not all, or even most Thoroughbreds are hard keepers.
                You only said that TBs TYPICALLY COST more to feed than warmbloods.
                Not trying to pick on anyone, I just thought you made a generalization that all TBs were hard keepers, and wanted to point out that they're not.
                come what may

                Rest in peace great mare, 1987-2013

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                • #9
                  When I first read it, I thought the total didn't seem like enough for an average horse in moderate work.
                  I'd start with more good hay, then wonder if a complete feed (like TC Complete) might not be a better solution - since you are currently adding beet pulp to TC Lite...
                  Y'all ain't right!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Seal Harbor View Post
                    Then in the late afternoon he gets a 30 lb beet pulp mush (starts out as 5-6lbs dry), with his vitamins and salt in it.
                    This isn't 30 pounds of food, though. It's 5-6 pounds of food and 24-25 pounds of water. So this horse gets roughly 20 lbs of roughage a day -- 15 pounds of alfalfa cubes and 5 or 6 pounds of beet pulp.

                    The OP's horse could easily be getting in excess of 20 pounds of hay, depending on how much the "flakes" of hay weigh.


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                    • #11
                      Why not just get better quality hay?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Phaxxton View Post
                        This isn't 30 pounds of food, though. It's 5-6 pounds of food and 24-25 pounds of water. So this horse gets roughly 20 lbs of roughage a day -- 15 pounds of alfalfa cubes and 5 or 6 pounds of beet pulp.

                        The OP's horse could easily be getting in excess of 20 pounds of hay, depending on how much the "flakes" of hay weigh.
                        The horse might be getting in excess of 20lbs of hay but it may not be eating all the hay. They tend to waste some if not quite a bit depending on the quality. In my situation all 20+lbs (as DM) is consumed and it is all very good to high quality forage, nutrient and calorie dense.

                        Someone else suggested adding alfalfa pellets to the diet, which would add more calories if the OP is in a situation where the hay is out of her/his control. Personally I would up the quantity of beet pulp.

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                        • #13
                          RFI-

                          I think you can do alot without making the RastaMon too peppy. I have 1 OTTB, age 10, on Triple Crown Low Starch-2 pounds 3xday plus about 3/4 cup canola oil in each meal. Ya, he is not in work but has brutal EPSM and is turned out in Maine (which means he works to get around!). He's in gorgeous weight.

                          Next is Matty-wait till you see him-8 year old OTTB. I switched him from the TC Low starch last summer when I moved him up to Training just cuz, mostly. He is now on TC Training Formula and you can't believe how slick and beautiful he is. His figure is amazing, his coat is beyond words (well, except for the not-very-good-clip I gave him last week!). He gets 2 pounds 3xday. It has NOT added ANY pep. I was sort of hoping for some pep. Nope...still Mr. Laid-Back-What's-Your-Hurry.

                          Lastly was Mikey (R.I.P.) Another awful EPSM sufferer. He also had food allergies. He ate 3 pounds (dry weight) alfalfa pellets, soaked in hot water till soupy with a cup of canola, 3xday. He was 17.1 TB and this menu kept his EPSM in check and kept him in good weight. He was a very hard keeper. He had to have a few supplements too bc alot was missing from his menu.

                          I serve yummy home grown 2nd cut grass hay-all they can eat.
                          Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

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                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                            Why not just get better quality hay?
                            agree - but - very difficult to get out where we live - am driving over to look at some orchard/alfalfa tomorrow though.
                            ~ it no longer matters what level I do, as long as I am doing it..~ with many thanks, to Elizabeth Callahan

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                            • #15
                              How much hay is that, in pounds not flakes? I'd up the hay first, with pellets or cubes, if you can't get more "real" hay. More beet pulp won't hurt. Good luck.

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                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by RiverBendPol View Post
                                RFI-

                                I think you can do alot without making the RastaMon too peppy. I have 1 OTTB, age 10, on Triple Crown Low Starch-2 pounds 3xday plus about 3/4 cup canola oil in each meal. Ya, he is not in work but has brutal EPSM and is turned out in Maine (which means he works to get around!). He's in gorgeous weight.

                                Next is Matty-wait till you see him-8 year old OTTB. I switched him from the TC Low starch last summer when I moved him up to Training just cuz, mostly. He is now on TC Training Formula and you can't believe how slick and beautiful he is. His figure is amazing, his coat is beyond words (well, except for the not-very-good-clip I gave him last week!). He gets 2 pounds 3xday. It has NOT added ANY pep. I was sort of hoping for some pep. Nope...still Mr. Laid-Back-What's-Your-Hurry.

                                Lastly was Mikey (R.I.P.) Another awful EPSM sufferer. He also had food allergies. He ate 3 pounds (dry weight) alfalfa pellets, soaked in hot water till soupy with a cup of canola, 3xday. He was 17.1 TB and this menu kept his EPSM in check and kept him in good weight. He was a very hard keeper. He had to have a few supplements too bc alot was missing from his menu.

                                I serve yummy home grown 2nd cut grass hay-all they can eat.
                                for some reason, the TC low starch makes Rasta very gassy...but again, it may be the orchard/alfalfa hay that makes him gassy; had a few farts today where there hasn't been ANY ... just bought this hay this week when the rather crappy but tolerable timothy went away. Am gonna go do some research on the TC Training formula...WHEN WILL YOU ARRIVE at your Aiken residence which is so near MY 2ND HOME?
                                ~ it no longer matters what level I do, as long as I am doing it..~ with many thanks, to Elizabeth Callahan

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by RunForIt View Post
                                  ..WHEN WILL YOU ARRIVE at your Aiken residence which is so near MY 2ND HOME?
                                  See your PMs
                                  Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by RunForIt View Post
                                    In the continuing saga of "feed" with Rasta Mon, we are presently in a good zone - no gas, good attitude, sane OTTB (but still has OTTB moments ). Here's what my 15.1 pony is presently getting twice a day: 2 cups shredded BP (then soaked in 4 cups water), 3 3/4 cups Triple Crown Lite, and 2-3 flakes of crappy orchard alfalfa hay ...also gets a couple more flakes of hay during day, and during night. He is ridden 5-6 days a week depending on how much the south wants to copy the north and be icey . I am thinking of adding a fat source because Rasta does look more ribby than usual - probably corn oil. So, should I also up the BP?
                                    I feed unsweetened beet pulp shreds, Ontario/Dehy timothy alfalfa cubes, TC 30% supplement soaked together and then ground flax added to everyone (TB's) and canola oil and rice bran added to the hard keepers (the toothless kids who can't eat the hay, good or bad). One horse gets 10 qts dry measure soaked bp split into 5 feedings a day. So, you can increase the bp for sure I think and add soaked cubes if good hay is unavailable plus the rice bran and canola (as stated earlier Cocosoya from Uckele is best). You refer to a ration balancer? Is TC Lite considered an RB? I use the 30% supp for an RB. Aiken Saddlery carries the Ontario/Dehy cubes if you want to try them. Good luck!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      2 cups of beet pulp is nothing. I'd work up to feeding about 2 lbs DRY before adding a fat source.

                                      I have no idea how much 3 3/4 cups of the Triple Crown weighs but make sure you are feeding enough of it to meet his nutritional needs. That also seems on the light side.

                                      A nutritionist once told me that many people who complain their horses are "hard keepers" are merely not feeding them enough.

                                      Edited to add: If the TC is a ration balancer, that probably is enough nutritionally but he may not be getting enough calories. I feed my horse beet pulp, a ration balancer and alfalfa pellets. The Alfalfa pellets help add calories and also buffer stomach acids.
                                      Last edited by Bogie; Jan. 24, 2011, 04:07 PM.
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