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Best Multivite for low grain/high alfalfa or just add BP or grass pellets?

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  • JB
    replied
    But, the Low Carb isn't their ration balancer, so it might be different. I know someone who managed to get an ingredient list if you can't find a feed tag, so I'll check with them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Seal Harbor
    replied
    Originally posted by JB View Post
    Noticed you're in WA
    http://www.lmfdealers.com/get_locati...tate_search=WA

    I don't know if they are fixed formulas, though I think they are.

    There is a 9% formula for alfalfa diets. it's the "Super Supplement"
    LMF is not fixed formula, at least not on their concentrates. I had to stop feeding LMF low carb because they went from alfalfa forage based to forage products based.

    Leave a comment:


  • Auventera Two
    replied
    Originally posted by JB View Post

    But, there is a lot more to having a properly nutritioned horse than having him not look malnourished The fat, shiny, sassy horse with regular skin problems has a nutrition problem, more than likely. For example
    Yes! Or the ones that have persistant hoof cracks that just will not heal no matter what. I have had SUCH amazing luck with having owners get these horses on a really great vitamin/mineral supplement and after a year or so these cracks are a total non-issue. Usually they don't even need a hoof supplement, just a plain old vitamin and mineral supplement. Some of these are horses that have worn shoes for a lifetime because their feet "fall apart." It's not magical woo woo, it's just plain good nutrition and SO many people neglect it or have no clue how to balance a diet.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    Noticed you're in WA
    http://www.lmfdealers.com/get_locati...tate_search=WA

    I don't know if they are fixed formulas, though I think they are.

    There is a 9% formula for alfalfa diets. it's the "Super Supplement"

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    RBs are in the general range of $30/50lb. Some a bit higher, some a bit lower (like Enrich is a bit lower, Progressive a big higher, depending on where you are).

    But, you're feeding, as you know, just about 1lb a day for the vast majority of horses. So, in the $.60/serving range.

    Leave a comment:


  • Seal Harbor
    replied
    Originally posted by JB View Post
    Progressive is a fixed formula company in terms of the ration balancers. I believe TC is as well.
    No Washington state dealers that I could see. How much do RB's cost? Typically.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    Progressive is a fixed formula company in terms of the ration balancers. I believe TC is as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Seal Harbor
    replied
    Originally posted by JB View Post
    Except that adult horses can deal pretty well with that unbalanced ratio, at least as long as it's not above about 5:1

    Ideal? No. I'd be adding a bit of unfortified rice bran. But adult horses usually are ok with that ratio.
    Actually it is 6:1 but I prefer to hedge my bets. There are other gaps that need filling, Vit E, Selenium, Vit A., Zinc, Copper, B vitamins, but you already know that.

    I've looked into using a ration balancer but if I don't know exactly what is in them and that formula never changes I can't feed them to my horse. Most of them are too high in protein, he is already getting high protein with the alfalfa, the beet pulp is lower - 9% tops. LMF makes one for alfalfa based diets but I would need to see the ingredient tag to see what is in it. The only place I can find that published is on the tag on the bag. Triple Crown does have their ingredients on their web site, which I appreciate.

    Leave a comment:


  • Somermist
    replied
    Originally posted by JB View Post
    Most RB are about 1200 calories per pound. Alfalfa is about 1000 calories. Taking away just 1lb of the alfalfa hay makes up the calories you're using in the RB.

    There are RBs made specifically for high/all alfalfa diets - 12% generally. 1lb of that is hardly any protein.

    Alfalfa and whole oats is not at all a perfect ration, no matter what anyone "thought".

    If you truly just want a vit/min supplement, there are many, and it's hard to go wrong.

    But you're so focused on protein, and are missing other elements of the nutritional intake, and a vit/min supplement just doesn't provide significant amounts of most things.
    We use Enrich 12 (12% protein) with our alfalfa hay. Love it.

    Leave a comment:


  • buck22
    replied
    why not a vit min supplement designed for alfalfa?
    http://www.uckeleequine.com/buy/equibasealfalfa10/

    I thinkyou can get it pelleted too

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    I think the Enrich 12 will suit you just fine

    Leave a comment:


  • Doctracy
    replied
    Leaning towards using the Purina RB and making things easy. I'll check out the feed store this afternoon, thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    Originally posted by Doctracy View Post
    How's the quality on the Purina ration balancer? It seems to be the only one my two local feed stores carry. Or, if I drive 50 miles RT I can get Nutrena. Progressive is much harder to get, more like 80 miles RT.
    It's actually pretty good. I'm not a Purina fan at all, but would use these if necessary.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    Originally posted by Doctracy View Post
    Not a bad idea!
    And, beet pulp, if I can find it here ( not a lot of great feed stores in my area),but if I do find it, would up the phosphorous ratio if I remember right?
    Beet pulp is also high in calcium LOL But truly, at 1c for the issue you described, given the already free choice alf, it doesn't matter

    Perhaps rice bran or wheat bran could be used as a carrier, if nothing else.
    You certainly could, and whole the little amount you'd likely be using won't help a LOT, unfortified bran is cheap and adds some phos to the high calcium hay

    The 18 month old is pretty growthy right now, shooting up like a weed every other month or so.
    This is the one I worry about the most on an all alf-diet and not on a good fortified feed, whether that is a growth type feed or a ration balancer.

    Whatever happened to balancing a ration using feed instead of ration balancers, btw?
    But a ration balancer IS a way of balancing a ration.

    Most people don't have access to mills that can provide the type and amount of vitamins and minerals to truly balance what it is the horse's hay and grass, and ONLY balance those things.

    Ration balancers are the next best thing.

    I don't remember seeing a lot of malnourished horse back than, either. Even the ones on full alfalfa, which is pretty common in CO, AZ or parts of CA.
    But, there is a lot more to having a properly nutritioned horse than having him not look malnourished The fat, shiny, sassy horse with regular skin problems has a nutrition problem, more than likely. For example

    Leave a comment:


  • Doctracy
    replied
    Originally posted by JB View Post
    If you were feeding 1qt of a feed, you were feeding at least 1lb, maybe only 1.25lb.

    So, 1lb of a ration balancer would be perfect.

    If there is any way you can replace a few pounds of the alfalfa with grass hay, or perhaps make it a little less free choice (do you know how much they are actually eating?) then the calories from 1lb of a ration balancer are more than made up.
    How's the quality on the Purina ration balancer? It seems to be the only one my two local feed stores carry. Or, if I drive 50 miles RT I can get Nutrena. Progressive is much harder to get, more like 80 miles RT.

    Leave a comment:


  • Doctracy
    replied
    Originally posted by JB View Post
    One does not at all need a sweet/sticky grain to make powders or crystal-like supplements stick. A cup of beet pulp, with 2-3 cups water, works very, very well. Or even the ration balancer with added water.
    Not a bad idea!
    And, beet pulp, if I can find it here ( not a lot of great feed stores in my area),but if I do find it, would up the phosphorous ratio if I remember right? That would be a good combo with alfalfa, I would think.
    I hate living in huge city with horses. There is no grain mill and the feed stores are what I would call mini-feed stores, more pet-stores, really.
    Most horses in the BNTs barns around here are on Bermuda pellets, alfalfa hay and electrolytes. Or at least the three bigger places that I know well. And, that still may be the way I decide to go. Seems logical, anyway.
    Perhaps rice bran or wheat bran could be used as a carrier, if nothing else. But I really like the beet pulp idea.
    Again, 3 older horses, no IR, no EPSM, so nothing to worry about there. Very, very low risk for laminitis as they are all at a nice weight, no crusty necks or anything. The 18 month old is pretty growthy right now, shooting up like a weed every other month or so.
    Basically, these should be the easiest horses in the country to feed. I'm just a perfectionist, want to make sure everything is just right. I'm somewhat limited by where I live and where I keep my horses.
    Whatever happened to balancing a ration using feed instead of ration balancers, btw?
    Sorry, everyone. I guess I'm just old school, did my equine classes at CSU in the mid-80s before ration balancers and Smart-Pak existed. I don't remember seeing a lot of malnourished horse back than, either. Even the ones on full alfalfa, which is pretty common in CO, AZ or parts of CA.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    Originally posted by Seal Harbor View Post
    Balance the Ca:P - alfalfa is top heavy in Ca, without using grass hay or grains to make it up.
    Except that adult horses can deal pretty well with that unbalanced ratio, at least as long as it's not above about 5:1

    Ideal? No. I'd be adding a bit of unfortified rice bran. But adult horses usually are ok with that ratio.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    Originally posted by Blondyb View Post
    If you are feeding quality Alfalfa hay, free choice, why do you need a vit/min supplement?
    Because that's not a balanced diet.

    Ok, it may be if it's been tested to be high enough in EVERYTHING. But that hay is rare

    Leave a comment:


  • Seal Harbor
    replied
    Originally posted by Blondyb View Post
    If you are feeding quality Alfalfa hay, free choice, why do you need a vit/min supplement?
    Balance the Ca:P - alfalfa is top heavy in Ca, without using grass hay or grains to make it up.

    My horse eats only alfalfa, beet pulp, flax seed(higher P), along with Select I for high alfalfa diets.

    Leave a comment:


  • pony grandma
    replied
    Oats! that's what I feed. No formulated grain products. Winter I use hot water soaked beet pulp, oats, a proadd vit supplement b/c the horses are on mixed hay (grass rounds all day and alfalfa a.m/p.m) - very clean and simple feed. And I have two very well developed young TB/WB crosses that are thriving with no joint development problems. Plus two older horses who are staying healthy.

    Sorry about your hay situation. Not having choices hurts. And cost is such a factor in parts of the country.

    What about a small amount of beet pulp as a carrier?

    Leave a comment:

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