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Feeding the Ulcery horse-Help!!

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  • Feeding the Ulcery horse-Help!!

    I have searched to forum, and there are about 3 zillion hits for ulcer on this forum. Also, I think such a thread needs to be added to the Sticky Horse Care FAQ's....Just my Opinion.

    Treating with GastroGard, what do I feed him during treatment? All the hay he wants obviously, but one vet says no Alfalfa during treatment, another says grass hay will be fine.

    What about after treatment? His paddock has no grass will never have grass in it-and I don't know of a single boarding barn around here that has 1) The facilities that I need 2) Grass in the individual turn-outs 3) Adequate pastue maintence/worming schedule 4) with in daily driving distance So moving is'nt really a good option. Some alfalfa with mainly grass? Timothy ok?

    Concentrates-I have him down to 2 lbs of Tribute Calm n EZ right now-this will not be enough to maintain him when he goes back to work. Do I find another concentrate? If so recommendations?

    Flax? I have been adding 1/3 cup per feeding, can he still have this?

    None of my horses really care for beet pulp, and the boarding barn thinks it a PITA

    Supplements? I have ordered him U-Gard, do I start him on it as soon as it gets here or after his course of GG?

    Other supplements: Smartcalm, Source, Flex N Action & 1/2 T of iodonized salt (this I have stopped giving him for the time being)

    Cocasoya?
    Probiotics? Soy yogurt, maybe?

    After spending so much time worrying about it, kicking my self, and quite a bit of money. I never want to put him through this again if I can avoid it.

  • #2
    squaremealfeeds.com

    worked for me. No more meds

    Comment


    • #3
      [quote]
      Originally posted by Spooky Alter View Post
      Treating with GastroGard, what do I feed him during treatment? All the hay he wants obviously, but one vet says no Alfalfa during treatment, another says grass hay will be fine.
      I have never heard of no alfalfa during treatment, you may want to do some more research on that.

      Grass hay is fine too, just make sure he constantly has access to it.

      What about after treatment? His paddock has no grass will never have grass in it-and I don't know of a single boarding barn around here that has 1) The facilities that I need 2) Grass in the individual turn-outs 3) Adequate pastue maintence/worming schedule 4) with in daily driving distance So moving is'nt really a good option. Some alfalfa with mainly grass? Timothy ok?
      Yes it sucks when there are no ideal boarding situations that are accessible. I have several friends with ulcer prone horses that are in the type of situation you describe. They purchase extra hay if need be, feed a low starch beet pulp based grain (i.e. Triple Crown Senior, or TC Complete), Add Alfalfa pellets or cubes and feed a good Ulcer preventative like U-Gard or Smartgut. Many people have said corn oil works well too and it's cheap.


      Flax? I have been adding 1/3 cup per feeding, can he still have this?
      Don't see why not?


      Supplements? I have ordered him U-Gard, do I start him on it as soon as it gets here or after his course of GG?
      I would say after.


      Probiotics? Soy yogurt, maybe?
      A little over the top if you use an ulcer supp that already has pre and probiotics in it (Ugard does not I believe). I think Smartgut does and I know Uckele GUT does as well.

      Comment


      • #4
        Most vets actually say to feed alfalfa because it reduces acid. After we treated my mare my vet said use U7 and I have now for 5 years, I also give 1/4 tube of ulcergard before any trailering or stress event.

        I really think the 1/4 tube is very important for maintenance and so does the vet clinic I use.
        RIP Kelly 1977-2007 "Wither thou goest, so shall I"

        "To tilt when you should withdraw is Knightly too."

        Comment


        • #5
          No alfalfa? That makes no sense. The vets who worked on my horse said to increase the alfalfa and give her as much as she wants since it is so high in calcium and magnesium.

          My ulcer horse eats no-molasses soaked beet pulp, alfalfa and grass hay, rice bran, black oil sunflower, ground flax, a vitamin/mineral supplement, and a little Purina Ultium. I buffer her electrolytes with Pro-CMC liquid when she needs them (endurance rides.) She's also on B1 and magnesium. I use 1/4 to 1/2 tubes of Gastrogard the day before, day of, and day after I trailer her out somewhere to work. For endurance rides I give it to her daily for about a week before the ride, then withhold for 24 hours before, then do another few days after returning home.

          She does absolutely awesome with this regime but she's still a spooky hot horse and always will be. The other day I got a new horse to trim and turns out he is very closely related to my mare, through the sire. He's old and has been hot and spooky his whole life, and had ulcer problems. The owner just finally quit riding him. She said if you don't want hot, spooky and ulcers, DON'T buy an Arab from this line.

          Comment


          • #6
            I wonder if the boarding barn would allow you to use small mesh hay nets and you could supply the extra hay?

            I have an ulcery gelding and I keep hay in front of him 24/7. I had been giving him alfalfa cubes but it made him too hot. He's the sensitive type anyway!

            The small mesh hay nets stretch out the hay feedings (and practically eliminate waste) so your horse doesn't go without hay for any length of time. I've found at my farm that for most horses, between 2 and 2.5% of their body weight daily pretty much amounts to free choice hay.
            http://thepitchforkchronicles.com

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              I have the small hole hay nets, I ordered them the day I got the news he has ulcers. I plan on either buying hay directly from the barn, or getting my own-the getting my own part is going to be tricky. I don't have anywhere to store any quantity-aside from kicking my husband out of the garage.

              I too was perplexed about the alfalfa thing, but it came from an equine vet at a large teaching university.

              So wait on the U-gard until after treatment, no loading then? I was thinking that the U-gard could start working while I was treating with the GG.

              I bought him a Likit & holder, wondering if giving him something to do in his stall will help.

              Now here is the 60K dollar question; this horse is in light to moderate work-and not what I would consider stressful. He has no real stress in his life. He has been on a concentrate heavy diet, but the concentrate is VERY low starch/sugar and is corn free. What is causing this?

              And another question, Vet says that worming him now is'nt a problem. Me, I think it's sticking TO MANY chemicals in him at once. He has tested negative for worms on each fecal this year. Vet wants to hit him for tape worms. Now the reading I have been doing says that encrusted Strongles (sp) can cause ulcers and are not always detected on a fecal.
              Do I give him the Equimax or Power pack him?
              Do I wait until after his GG treatment is complete?
              Last edited by Spooky Alter; Jan. 20, 2011, 11:57 PM. Reason: Modified

              Comment


              • #8
                I'd wait until the GG is done before deworming. Hopefully, one of the experts on here will weigh in on which dewormer would be best.

                My ulcery guy has tons of turnout-at the very minimum 8 hours per day and never locked in a stall. When not on turnout he has his stall and paddock to move around in. He also has hay in front on him constantly and has just about everything in his life that is recommended for an ulcer prone horse. He's just the sensitive type horse and I think he's much more prone to ulcers than others. He's dealing with a flare up now and he's only be ridden once a week for 20 minutes if I'm lucky, so I don't know how much less stressful I can make his life! Ironically, his half brother is a cribber, yet the dam of these two has no GI issues or cribs.
                Go figure!

                I think you can try to do all the lifestyle changes possible but sometimes they still have issues. I'm putting him on Smartgut as a preventative once we're done with the meds. I will admit that I had used UGuard but stopped a while ago-maybe that contributed to his recent flare up?
                http://thepitchforkchronicles.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  I was told to put mine on alfalfa and an antacid (vet didn't care which one, so I chose Smartgut) The calcium in the alfalfa buffers the acid, so that is why you would want it!!

                  She also gets Ultium and a few various other supplements.

                  I waited to worm until after the GG was done, and then I just used ivermectin.

                  There are studies that are now showing heliobacter pylori involvement in equine ulcers, the same bacteria that cause it in humans. Many horses just get ulcers, with or without stress, although adding stress to the mix doesn't help.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think the alfalfa decreases the absorption of gastrogaurd. In humans, you're not to take tums just before or after your dose.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Spooky Alter View Post
                      Now here is the 60K dollar question; this horse is in light to moderate work-and not what I would consider stressful. He has no real stress in his life. He has been on a concentrate heavy diet, but the concentrate is VERY low starch/sugar and is corn free. What is causing this?
                      You might never know the answer to that question. My horse was ridden a couple times a week, sure she did some LD endurance rides but she LOVED them, she loves to be ridden and to be worked. She's always been the type of horse that is happier going away from the barn down the trail than back toward home. She is so happy on the trail, ears up, tail up, light springy stride, never crabby or ugly about working. She's never been overworked or over stressed, or had any kind of stressful situations in her life except trailing out to ride on weekends. Since this all started I reduced the amount of trailering and I tend to ride her more at home and less away from home.

                      I think my horse's issue might have started from a deworming with Zimectrin Gold. She had developed a mouth ulcer with it, and I've read if they develop mouth ulcers, chances are likely they develop stomach ulcers as well. On one thread a poster said that Merial was giving away free Ulcergard just to shut people up who complained about it. I called Merial and asked about this and the woman said she had no clue what I was talking about. So, who knows??? So I have a suspicion the ZG started a belly issue, the discomfort probably made her stressed about it which led to more ulcers and acid, and a vicious cycle started. She was getting electrolytes for the LDs we did and that probably irritated the stomach even more, Trotting and cantering force acid into the upper part of the stomach so our conditioning rides weren't helping, etc......

                      Or it might have been totally unrelated to that. I have no idea and will probably never know. Sometimes a horse just simply makes too much acid. Or they might be the nervous, worrier type. Or??? Or or or. There are so many reasons why.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Bump

                        Hoping to get insight into the worming issue.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My vet told me to feed my horse less alfalfa when once was being treated for ulcers. Alfalfa can make them gassy, and my horse had a colic prior to starting treatment, so this may be why.
                          Proud Member of the "Tidy Rabbit Tinfoil Hat Wearers" clique and the "I'm in my 30's and Hope to be a Good Rider Someday" clique

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Spooky Alter View Post
                            I bought him a Likit & holder, wondering if giving him something to do in his stall will help.
                            Be very careful with those. They are 100% pure sugar and sugar causes an increase in the production of stomach acid. Horses with ulcers should not receive high sugar grains or treats. When I give my filly her Likit (stall rest) I make sure the one with ulcers can't reach it. Would he like to play with one of those pink salt on a rope deals?

                            As for deworming, I am VERY careful about it now. I do fecals and only deworm as absolutely necessary. And when I do deworm I do a week or so of Ulcergard 1/4 tubes daily, along with it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No alfalfa? That IS strange.

                              Alfalfa actually calms the stomach and when I have heard of ulcer horses, the vets always recommended alfalfa hay.

                              I have also heard of aloe vera juice being good for ulcer horses.

                              Comment

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