• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Suspected collateral ligament injury - Nope

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Suspected collateral ligament injury - Nope

    My mare was moving the best she ever has after elbow, navicular and coffin joint injections during the previous months. Awesome ride Tuesday, slightly lame Wednesday and abscess (I'm gonna die) lame on Friday. She didn't react to the farriers hoof testers( although the farrier did find later where an abscess had blown out). After weeks of stall rest she was better and I walked her under saddle. She was improving slightly (soft ground) . Vet came out and she was very lame on hard ground. The vet blocked her and she blocked sound at the 2nd level. Vet thought it was collateral ligament and put her on stall rest. Now after 3 months of stall rest she isn't any better. The vet had been suggesting a MRI all along but I just found out that my insurance company won't pay for it.


    With a CL injury do they ever show slight improvement or is it all or nothing?

    Since MRI's are awfully expensive will an ultrasound or xray be able to show the problem? What if the problem is calcium deposits.

    What about foregoing the diagnostic and just plan on giving her another 6 months to a year off?

    If I want to do shockwave therapy do I need to know the exact point of injury or can it treat a general area.

    Last edited by dbtoo; Dec. 31, 2010, 06:04 PM. Reason: spelling

  • #2
    Which side is the injury - lateral or medial?

    For an injury potentially as serious as this, I would recommend a lameness specialist. The sooner the horse is properly diagnosed and treated, the better. Diagnosis can be made via ultra sound and xrays. Calcification will be visable if it is there. For treatment, shock wave therapy is used, and so is stem cell, IRAP and PRP (platelet rich plasma).

    For suppliments, there is a Platinum Performance product called Osteon, which aids in healing of ligaments and tendons. It is silica based. Success has also been had with putting a horse on P.P. CJ - their joint suppliment.

    What about his feet - what do they look like? Is he high on one side vs the other? By chance did a farrier put him in Truimph (beveled edges, kind of like eventer shoes), and then also have the medial lateral balance out of whack? If that is the case, the high side forced the horse to roll the foot the opposite direction, and puts the breakover abnormally to one side or the other. This medial lateral imbalance often leads to CL injuries.

    I am not sure that just stall rest without treatment to speed heeling would resolve the issue. Maybe someone else will chime in.


    • #3
      First off, I strongly suggest doing a search here on collateral ligaments and then set aside some time for a lot of reading.

      Second, the blog that's linked in my signature details my experiences with my horse's collateral ligament injury. In Star's case it was the collateral ligaments between P2 and P3 and both medial and lateral will involved to some extent.

      1. Not sure. In Star's case it was kind of all or nothing on the healing portion of the injury. But we didn't test his level of lameness once we started the treatments until two weeks after we ended them

      2. Assuming we are dealing with a P2-P3 collateral ligament, most of it is within the hoof capsule. Ultrasound won't go through the hoof so it's not particularly helpful unless the injury in near the top part. Radiographs only see bone not soft tissue. The collateral ligaments are soft tissue so you can't directly view the bone. If the ligament has pulled off a chunk of bone you would be able to see that. Generally they will do scintigraphy (AKA bone scan) of the lower leg to pinpoint the area better and then do MRI of the suspicious-looking portion. The MRI instrument can look within the hoof capsule. But it's not cheap. My insurance paid for both the scintigraphy and the MRI.

      3. Some of them do heal on their own. Some don't. My horse's was not.

      4. Depends on your definition of general area. It wasn't a small area like a laser but we did know which portion of the collateral ligament was injured. I think they rubbed the shockwave probe over an area an inch or so in diameter.

      Good luck with your horse!
      The Evil Chem Prof


      • #4
        My horse had an undiagnosed lameness for a year and a half before I sprung for the MRI, and I wish I woulda done it sooner because I would have saved a LOT of time and probably $$. Turned out to be a severe ligament tear.

        As Peggy said, it depends on whether they think the issue is proximal to the hoof. You can do ultrasound (relatively cheap) to rule out most soft tissue problems there.

        Nuclear scintigraphy can also rule out bone problems (including incomplete fractures and bone bruises). I will say, my horse (same horse with the ligament tear) presented 3 weeks ago with non weight bearing lameness, and is still non weight bearing when standing. Final diagnosis: bone bruise on the caudo-lateral aspect of the proximal tibia, where the lateral collateral ligament (of the stifle) inserts. He likely fell, yanked the LCL really hard (no structural damage to that), and bruised the bone. I was impressed that a simple bone bruise on the less-weight-bearing lateral side of the tibia caused that much lameness. We all thought he had a fracture. So that would be another thing you could try to rule out bone involvement prior to the MRI.

        Interestingly, his severe core tear of the straight sesamoidean ligament (in the pastern) resulted in only mild lameness and mild effusion. And that injury ended his career.

        But, ultrasound costs a few hundred $, the bone scan costs about $1K, and if you can't find a problem, you'll likely have to do an MRI anyway.

        You could do what I did: year+ off (in a stall!), see what happens. But then when we started a rehab program, he went lame all over again and we were back to square 1. Which was when I sprung for the MRI. Likely, from now on, I will pay for the diagnostics right off the bat (such as paying the $1K for a bone scan immediately after bringing my horse to the hospital). You just have no idea what you're doing until you know what the problem is.

        So, if you vet (and you can/should get a 2nd opinion!) thinks MRI is the way to go, then if it's financially feasible then you should do it, IMO. If you do all of the other diagnostics to rule out everything else, or put the horse on stall rest rehab for a year +, all of that would probably cost as much as the MRI that could (I assume) definitively diagnose the problem. It also depends on the treatment of the worst possible outcome. If it's something that will take years to rehab, would you do it? If not, then perhaps throwing the horse out in a pasture would be a better option. You need to figure out what you can live with. My horse ended up with the worst possible functional outcome: several years of rehab, and he ended up a pasture ornament. But I don't regret spending all that money for a second because he's alive. And continually trying to commit suicide still to this day.


        • Original Poster

          Thank you for your ideas and stories. I hadn't thought of the bone scan.

          I will sit down this weekend end and read the CL threads on here. Unfortunately, I think I was being way too optimistic.


          • #6
            And one more thing:
            If you decide for the MRI, do one under anesthesia (the standing ones aren't nearly as good for the $$), and I would pick the facility that has the best ANESTHESIA team, not the best lameness/radiology team. You can always send the images to Washington or one of the other well-known equine radiologists.


            • Original Poster

              In case any one is interested, or if it helps anyone else.

              I did digital xrays of her right front feet that showed old bone spurs near the coffin joint. The vet who took the x-rays, not the treating vet, was sure this was the issue and had me thinking about surgery to remove them. I talked to treating vet who is a track vet and has seen it all. He said yes I know there are spurs that isn't the issue. At that point I decided to spring for the MRI (insurance won't cover her front leg joints).

              I just got the results back and it turns out that there is no ligament or tendon damage but she has pretty good arthritis in both coffin joints, especially the right, which has been the sore foot. Neither the vet who did the MRI nor the treating vet were at all concerned about the bone spurs.There are some other minor issues but that seems to be the biggie. I'll get the written report on Monday and will discuss my options with the treating vet.

              I guess the moral is don't try to be cheap, go with the best diagnositic and most experienced vet available.
              Last edited by dbtoo; Dec. 31, 2010, 06:03 PM. Reason: spelling


              • #8
                So none of the arthritic changes were visilble on the digital X-rays? Interesting. I always thought joint arthritis would show up on an X-ray and a MRI was more to get an idea of the ligament issues going on in the foot.

                Let us know what they suggest treatmentwise. Thx for sharing.