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New procedures for joints?

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  • New procedures for joints?

    Hey everyone,

    Im doing a mini-presentation in one of my grad classes on the equine joint, arthritis, DJD, etc. Im covering most of the basics, but I wanted to wrap up the presentation by introducing some new/up&coming/controversial methods for dealing with arthritis/DJD.

    Im having trouble finding anything beyond the standard injections, oral supplements, shockwave, and iRAP...so I figured I would turn to one of the most knowledgeable groups I know.. COTH!

    Does anyone have any new information regarding joints? TIA!!

  • #2
    You might do a search on grain alcohol injections. I've got a thread on here about my experiences with this treatment with my retired gelding. There's also quite a lot of info on the web.

    Comment


    • #3
      google Pentosan and polyglycan.
      The big man -- my lost prince

      The little brother, now my main man

      Comment


      • #4
        You could also present information on Tildren. Originally started as a treatment for navicular but has now spread into other areas like kissing spine and ringbone, as well as a whole-body treatment for arthritis.

        Comment


        • #5
          Try searching abstracts from recent veterinary (AAEP) and orthopedic (ORS, ICRS) society meetings. New data/treatments are often presented at these meeting before they are actually "published"
          *Absolut Equestrian*

          "The plural of anecdote is not fact...except in the horse industry"

          Comment


          • #6
            Sometimes a synopsis showing the benefits of a multi-faceted approach to joint issues is an effective way to wrap up a paper. Something along the lines of Joint injections/followed up with Adequan and then a daily supplement. Also showing effectiveness of certain oral supplements, i.e. the fact that now HA has been proven to be able to be adminstered orally and it be taken up by the joints, as they have done studies where they put a marker in the supplements and later foudn that marker in the joints, versus the "anecdotal" effectiveness of Glucosamine/Chondrotin etc that has no real proof to work when adminstered orally can be a good followup in a paper.
            www.shawneeacres.net

            Comment


            • #7
              Are there new studies on the efficacy of oral HA? I would be interested in reading them if anyone cares to share a link (Shawnee do you have one?)
              DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

              Comment


              • #8
                Thehorse.com is a great resource.

                Pumpkn, there is data on oral HA on the horse.
                www.foxwoodfarms.biz
                "There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots."
                -Member of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique!
                http://community.webshots.com/user/wlrottge

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
                  Are there new studies on the efficacy of oral HA? I would be interested in reading them if anyone cares to share a link (Shawnee do you have one?)
                  My vet told me about the studies, would have to ask her. They put radioactive markers in the HA and then traced them into the joints according to her. Showed that the body did utilize the oral HA properly
                  www.shawneeacres.net

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Cool.

                    wlrottge: The stuff I'm reading on The Horse is that oral HA isn't doing anything. I am not finding articles showing that it is healing/reducing inflamation...I'm sincerely interested, if there are studies proving that oral works, btw.

                    http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=15313 Basically that injected HA does work but there aren't studies on oral (except this one where it didn't work, albeit with a very small sample) from the article:

                    "One such possibility is oral administration of hyaluronic acid. Previous studies have demonstrated hyaluronic acid's ability to alter cartilage metabolism when injected into a joint. But research into the effectiveness of its oral formulation is limited."

                    Also, researching further to add to what Shawnee's vet said, is that there IS radioactive-evidence linking absorption but that does not = doing anything further. So if anyone can link to specific scientific data, I'd love it. Here is a comment on this topic from Dr. Robert N. Oglesby, DVM over on his forum HorseAdvice.com. He says:

                    "Just because you detect radioactivity from radioactively labeled HA does not mean that the HA has been absorbed in a fashion or concentration that is clinically useful. Their statement [referreing to Hylaron], "Evidence of the oral absorption and efficacy of HA has been documented for the prevention and treatment of diseases in humans" is true but misleading. Yes the radioactive experiment gives evidence of some sort of absorption and yes there is evidence that HA is clinically useful for some diseases, but this is not the same as showing that oral HA is clincially useful for arthritis.
                    DrO"

                    OP--is this getting too far off your topic?
                    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I meant that you can go read the research for yourself if you want

                      Our horse(s) that get joint support get it through a needle. The HA and glucosamine molecules are large and fragile. They are not well absorbed and are easily broken down by stomach acids. I'm an engineer and being of the science type... I've yet to see anything that gives me a warm fuzzy a/b oral supps. (we do feed msm to one)
                      www.foxwoodfarms.biz
                      "There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots."
                      -Member of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique!
                      http://community.webshots.com/user/wlrottge

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Equus just had a feature article on lameness and the latest treatements for degenerative arthritis in horses.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          oops

                          Originally posted by wlrottge View Post
                          I meant that you can go read the research for yourself if you want

                          Our horse(s) that get joint support get it through a needle. The HA and glucosamine molecules are large and fragile. They are not well absorbed and are easily broken down by stomach acids. I'm an engineer and being of the science type... I've yet to see anything that gives me a warm fuzzy a/b oral supps. (we do feed msm to one)
                          I just want them (oral) to work SO bad! I guess I twisted your post to give it the meaning I wanted to hear. Lol! Sorry.

                          Msm is the only oral supplement I feed. *sigh* At least it is cheap.
                          DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This is not what I am hearin from my vet, she goes to all the mjor conferences etc and she said that after she read the studies, it showed her that oral HA was beneficial. I have been using lubrisyn since that time and found that it really works, unlike the other powdered "joitn supplements" out there. Now MSM also has been shown to have antiinflamatorry properties and I find it beneficial, but I wont waste my money on oral glucosamine supplements.
                            www.shawneeacres.net

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This is kind of a joke... but not given the importance of OA in horses.

                              I'd open or close with a sense of how expensive (now) and historically long-standing the OA problem in horses has been.

                              Why the National Science Foundation hasn't made the *prevention* and *cure* of OA in these bred-too-big-and-too-heavy, pretty, good-smelling animals priority #1, I just don't know.
                              The armchair saddler
                              Politically Pro-Cat

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by shawneeAcres View Post
                                This is not what I am hearin from my vet, she goes to all the mjor conferences etc and she said that after she read the studies, it showed her that oral HA was beneficial. I have been using lubrisyn since that time and found that it really works, unlike the other powdered "joitn supplements" out there. Now MSM also has been shown to have antiinflamatorry properties and I find it beneficial, but I wont waste my money on oral glucosamine supplements.
                                Something I said in another thread is that the other ingredients could be what improves the lameness grade (MSM/Devil's claw/etc). i.e. a decrease in inflamation could improve function w/o improving synovial fluid/cartilidge quality.

                                The chemistry is pretty simple, HA is a large, fragile sugar.

                                I can't find the reference for the HA stuff, but here are three worth reading:
                                http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=13857

                                http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=9673

                                (HA info) http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=15313


                                If you look at the price of oral v/s IV/IM, there's not much if any difference. Why use something that is questionable when for the same money you can use a FDA approved/tested product that bipasses the digestive system and goes straight into the system?
                                www.foxwoodfarms.biz
                                "There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots."
                                -Member of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique!
                                http://community.webshots.com/user/wlrottge

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by shawneeAcres View Post
                                  This is not what I am hearin from my vet, she goes to all the mjor conferences etc and she said that after she read the studies, it showed her that oral HA was beneficial. I have been using lubrisyn since that time and found that it really works, unlike the other powdered "joitn supplements" out there. Now MSM also has been shown to have antiinflamatorry properties and I find it beneficial, but I wont waste my money on oral glucosamine supplements.
                                  SA: Just to clarify my comment, I wasn't saying your vet was wrong, but I would like a reference so I can do my own research (not implying you have to provide it either). I cannot find a reference saying definitively that oral HA is actuallly doing something for horses with o. arthritis. I can find the radioactivity studies.

                                  I wish all vets stayed up to date on this stuff and attended conferences!

                                  Does that make sense? I am just looking for information.
                                  DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

                                  Comment

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