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banamine thoughts....

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    banamine thoughts....

    a timely topic since we are in colic season.(at least in upstate ny). does anyone have a scientific reason why banamine, given im, is more likely than other substances to cause abscesses? being the mom of a colic-prone guy...this is of interest to me. seems like the equine medical community is split on im vs. oral. (when iv isn't an option...) 2 vets that i work w/, one being my own, "poo-poo" the notion that im can cause problems. (well, they acknowledge the "remote possibility") i personally have dealt w/ 3 cases of this (abscess)- which of course require lots of aftercare and vet bills...
    i have no problem giving im shots, but i am loathe to im banamine. the paste and the injectable solution clearly take a bit longer to work..........i realize this...but....
    thoughts?

    #2
    My own vet just gave me a syringe to have on hand, but acknowledged that it is very irritating and that in vet school she cared for a nasty abscess from an IM banamine shot. I have instructions to give it low on the rear, where if it does abscess, it will drain well. I am thinking I'll do everything in my power to avoid ever giving that shot!

    I am sticking with Banamine paste given orally. If I have to give the liquid I will likely just squirt it under the tongue and get fussed at if necessary.

    Maybe eventually I will learn to do IV shots... it doesn't look *that* hard, given enough practice. The problem is, who to practice on!
    --
    Wendy
    ... with Patrick and Henry

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by mammadoc View Post
      a timely topic since we are in colic season.(at least in upstate ny). does anyone have a scientific reason why banamine, given im, is more likely than other substances to cause abscesses? being the mom of a colic-prone guy...this is of interest to me. seems like the equine medical community is split on im vs. oral. (when iv isn't an option...) 2 vets that i work w/, one being my own, "poo-poo" the notion that im can cause problems. (well, they acknowledge the "remote possibility") i personally have dealt w/ 3 cases of this (abscess)- which of course require lots of aftercare and vet bills...
      i have no problem giving im shots, but i am loathe to im banamine. the paste and the injectable solution clearly take a bit longer to work..........i realize this...but....
      thoughts?
      Actually this is not true.......the studies say IM and giving the liquid orally takes about the same about of time.....but in my experience the liquied banamine that I have given orally started to work after about 10 to 15 minutes where the IM ones I have given was a good 30/40 minutes.

      Why would you risk IM when oral works and works faster? Don't understand the logic.

      Dalemma

      Comment


        #4
        My guess is that those who recommend giving it IM haven't ever seen a Clostridium infection that was linked to an IM injection of Banamine or Lasix or any other irritating IM injectible. There are certainly plenty of case studies out there of Clostridium infections linked to IM injections, but I couldn't find one that has the likelihood in my brief search. However, why chance it?

        Comment


          #5
          I've done some searching and couldn't find one adverse effect of giving injectible Banamine by mouth, yet found a slew of pictures of the aftermath of giving it IM. One of them had a horse with nearly all of it's lower neck muscle missing. Ugh.

          Are there any issues with giving injectible Banamine orally? Ever? I've always been told to do that if I can't do an IV injection, horse I have now takes two people to get IV done. There are times when two people aren't available. The paste they have to swallow, the liquid seems easier, less messy, quicker to absorb through the mucus membranes and cheaper.

          Comment


            #6
            My vet told me that, in most cases, he has discontinued administering Banamine IM and now gives it orally. Last winter I had a situation where I had to use it, and he told me to take the needle off the syringe and squirt it under the tongue. He said it works much faster.
            "We need a pinned ears icon." -MysticOakRanch

            Comment

              Original Poster

              #7
              according to both the vets i work with, banamine is very irritating to the intestinal lining. hence why some insist on im. i guess you decide- which is worse- and to me, the possible abscess caused from claust., is worse, having seen it , and cared for the aftermath, a couple of times. i really still am curious- from a scientific point of view, why banamine is more likely than other substances administered im to cause this problem. ghazzu? you out there?

              Comment


                #8
                does anyone have a scientific reason why banamine, given im, is more likely than other substances to cause abscesses?
                Good article on the subject:
                http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=6466

                Comment


                  #9
                  I'm out here, but heavily medicated. (came off my horse in an unfortunate fashion)

                  Flunixin is irritating to the GI tract no matter how it's administered.
                  Given orally,neither paste nor injectable solution makes it in any significant quantity to the gut.
                  It's the pharmacologic action of the drug that causes the irritation.

                  As for the IM clostridial issues, it is unclear why this happens (flunixin isn't the only drug that can cause them).
                  There is a theory (not proven ) that clostridial spores reside in normal tissue, and become active under the right circumstances--such as decreased oxygen levels and pH changes which might occur with tissue damage from irritants injected.
                  "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                  ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post
                    I'm out here, but heavily medicated. (came off my horse in an unfortunate fashion)

                    Flunixin is irritating to the GI tract no matter how it's administered.
                    Sorry about the unfortunate parting of ways!

                    If one's horse is going to be on Banamine for a few days, is Ulcerguard or something similar recommended at the same time?

                    Comment

                      Original Poster

                      #11
                      thanks for the link, leather. very interesting....

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Yikes ghazzu, feel better! Or are you already feeling pretty good
                        ______________________________
                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by BigMick View Post
                          If one's horse is going to be on Banamine for a few days, is Ulcerguard or something similar recommended at the same time?
                          For a few days, it won't hurt, but generally probably isn't necessary unless the horse is extraordinarily sensitive to it. If the horse is going to be on NSAIDS (Bute, Banamine) for a longer period of time, it's probably a good idea.
                          ~Nancy~

                          Adams Equine Wellness

                          Comment

                            Original Poster

                            #14
                            oh and thanks ghazzu, for chiming in. sorry to hear that you got hurt!!!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by McVillesMom View Post
                              For a few days, it won't hurt, but generally probably isn't necessary unless the horse is extraordinarily sensitive to it. If the horse is going to be on NSAIDS (Bute, Banamine) for a longer period of time, it's probably a good idea.
                              Thanks, Nancy! My horse scratched his eye and has been on Banamine for five days. I'm hopeful that this is the last day. :-)

                              Comment


                                #16
                                My horse recently died from a clostridial infection in the upper left hind leg not caused by a banamine shot. The vets at New Bolton asked me several times if I had given an IM shot of banamine because most clostridial infections they see are caused by IM banamine although mostly in the neck.

                                A friend saw a racehorse die within an hour of recieving an IM banamine shot from a clostridial infection.

                                Why take the chance? IV shots are quite easy to give with practice.
                                http://www.benchmarksporthorses.com/

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  When giving IV shots you need to be concerned about the cartroid artery that runs really close to next vein. Even known a vet to miss.

                                  One way to avoid the cartroid arthery is to put the needle in facing downwards instead of going in facing up.

                                  Dalemma

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Jleegriffith View Post
                                    A friend saw a racehorse die within an hour of recieving an IM banamine shot from a clostridial infection.
                                    How did a clostridial infection develop that quickly, that badly, to kill a horse?

                                    Why take the chance? IV shots are quite easy to give with practice.
                                    "with practice" being the operative phrase, and even then, it takes a somewhat cooperative horse OR someone VERY practiced. Not exactly in the realm of many horse owners.

                                    Oral application is just fine, and is no worse than IM in terms of effectiveness.
                                    ______________________________
                                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      I can do an IV shot, on any horse but mine. He takes two people to keep him still even for the vet. So it will be the oral dosing for him if I am alone and he needs Banamine.

                                      He also gets allergy shots, I do those, subQ, no issue. Only IV injections does he have objections, strong objections.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        C a r o t i d artery. Not cartroid.


                                        Sorry, that was driving me batty.

                                        I won't 'practice' giving IV shots. Nope. I'll squirt Banamine under their tongue.

                                        I gave Banamine IM for years until I knew better. Knowing better, I cannot take the risk. It's that whole 'knowing better' bit.

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