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for those who think NB isn't pure fantasy & butchery

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  • for those who think NB isn't pure fantasy & butchery

    Seen as iv been demonised as a troll on this forum & even it seems by the moderator 1, I'm not going to enter in to any debate, other than to ask those who support NB to read the fine print & hopefully have an explanation why & how theses qualified persons got it so wrong & there NB guru Gene is so right ?
    http://old.cvm.msu.edu/dressage/arti...cpres/MOEL.htm
  • Original Poster

    #2
    Did you have a good read NBers or are you to busy hiding under a rock as usual when confronted with the truth ,some people need to stop clinging to feel good do do storeys & get with whats true in life, sorry moderator, but some times things have to be said in this world to make a difference, if that makes me a troll & worthy of being banned then so be it, i can live with that, beats the hell out of standing back saying nothing & watching horses being crippled time & time again day in day out.

    Comment


    • #3
      Perhaps if every member of COTH put darling jack on the 'ignore' list all of this nonsense would go away?

      Comment


      • #4
        I just did. Thanks for reminding of that handy-dandy feature
        <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

        Comment


        • #5
          All members of this board are welcome to discuss, ignore or address posts as they wish, as long as their methods of communication adhere to the rules of the forum and maintain a generally respectful and productive atmosphere.

          Jack Mac, you're welcome to excerpt specific portions of the paper to which you've linked in order to foster further discussion if others wish to participate.

          Comment


          • #6
            Forget saying no to drugs.. SAY NO TO TROLLS!
            Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!

            Comment


            • #7
              Interesting link and interesting reading. The word "natural" appeared once and the word "balance" appeared not at all in the article. So jm's point escapes me (as usual) but it's a neat thing to read anyhow.

              In my field, people who cling to one bit of dogma over the years and never let it go are called something a lot more derisive than a "one trick pony".
              Click here before you buy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Didn't we already have this discussion already?


                I've never known the NB method to be referred to as butchery. It's pretty much just a certain sort of trim with certain shoes that works for some horses.

                Never thought there was any fantasizing involved.
                Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                -Rudyard Kipling

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                • #9
                  Is Jac Mac joking...I especially liked the second post by JM

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    OP, I think there is a better way of stating your views so that you don't get labeled unnecessarily as a troll. I guess what I might respectfully suggest is that you word your posts more professionally and not succumb to foul language. I'm assuming that you are a farrier and if I read your posts and was your customer, I'd be a little embarrassed. I realize that you are obviously passionate about your views and that is good, it is difficult sometimes however to not "cross the line". My opinion, for what it's worth anyway, and yes I know you didn't ask. In any case, I'll play along, assuming the best for now. I did have an experience with a NB farrier who shod my horse a few times and even had Gene on the phone during the procedure(s). I say procedure because every shoeing took several hours and quite often she had her head on the ground assessing angles and such. I can tell you that I took a good bit of ribbing from the BO and the other boarders. I can also tell you that it helped not a bit and when I finally got the farrier that kept this horse sound for years he was one that made his own shoes and had not-so-nice things to say about the "ready-fit" shoes. I'm not against them for uncomplicated horses and in this gal's defense, I went through several farriers to get to the ONE that worked. JME

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I fail to see how the linked article has any bearing, positive or negative on NB or regular shoeing. Dr. Clayton simply describes the biomechanics/kinetics of the limb without any sort of relation to farriery. It is a good biomechanics article.

                      Reed

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RAyers View Post
                        I fail to see how the linked article has any bearing, positive or negative on NB or regular shoeing. Dr. Clayton simply describes the biomechanics/kinetics of the limb without any sort of relation to farriery. It is a good biomechanics article.

                        Reed
                        tend to agree-jm very hard for people to judge you when you dont say exactly what you do in the horse world-- and you give this and that of information and you yourself have admitted you google it-- so therefore most is third hand and hearsay so for people to judge as you have percieved by some then you only have yourself to blame by what you write

                        if you are a triainer or a farrier etc then say so-- it might help

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well...if it looks like a troll, and acts like a troll...
                          Maybe you really don't understand how this works, consider this a PSA...really, if you want people to have a rational, intelligent discussion with you on any subject, ESPECIALLY hoof care, then you have to present it in an intelligent, rational, NON-COMBATIVE way. Every post of yours I've read has made me less and less inclined to give any merit to anything you post.
                          "We're still right, they're still wrong" James Carville

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            The rudeness on my part stems from frustration with having to deal with what i refer to as smiling saboteurs, who's sole purpose on theses forums is to insure any topic up for discussion that doesn't fit with there little agenda or contradicts what they believe is true wont & mustn't succeed , the smiling saboteurs are usually the first to cry troll & encouraging others to do the same the article clearly defines that a horse needs the toe of his hoof to get lift & drive from, both front & hind feet, so it is fundamental in proper stride function in all gaits, NB protocol is based on the "total opposite". they can church NB up all they like, the fact is the toe is a critical part of the limb function, if you cant fathom or grasp what consequences & detrimental effects removing it from the function of the limb will cause, then i suggest maybe goldfish might be your calling in life.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well then jackmac, why don't you draw/take a picture of/find a picture on the net of a properly trimmed foot, a long-toed foot, both with the PROPER placement of a NB shoe, and explain, in detail, why you think that is wrong, how it differs from a properly placed non-NB shoe, and how it differs from a bare foot that either is already properly trimmed, or has the breakover put where it needs to be until that's how it grows.

                              Because so far, none of your arguments make ANY sense to ANYone here, including several vets and several certified farriers, nor anyone else. You never prove anything, yet continue down the same path with the same arguments.
                              ______________________________
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by jack mac View Post
                                the article clearly defines that a horse needs the toe of his hoof to get lift & drive from, both front & hind feet,
                                Not quite.
                                so it is fundamental in proper stride function in all gaits, NB protocol is based on the "total opposite".
                                Wrong. Your misunderstanding/blind hatred of the NB protocols has caused you to make erroneous assumptions and state logical fallacies.
                                they can church NB up all they like, the fact is the toe is a critical part of the limb function, if you cant fathom or grasp what consequences & detrimental effects removing it from the function of the limb will cause, then i suggest maybe goldfish might be your calling in life.
                                So explain why the following shoe modifications are part and parcel of any qualified farrier's "bag of tricks":
                                Rolled toes
                                Rockered Toes,
                                Blunt toes,
                                Square toes

                                Concave shoes with the toe knit shut
                                Half-round shoes.

                                For, in truth and practice, each of these shoes and modifications affects the toe and its place in hoof and limb function.

                                Have you personally ever used any of the enumerated shoes or modifications? If so, which ones, and why?

                                Perhaps its time for you to make personal use of your suggestion.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by JB View Post
                                  Well then jackmac, ...................... You never prove anything, yet continue down the same path with the same arguments.
                                  Albert Einstein defined Insanity as " doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. ..."

                                  So, it would seem we could take that definition and apply it to the consistency of the body of work Jack Mac produces and then draw our conclusions.......

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Lets have a fundamental look at what you would fit to the hinds of a horse with your NB protocol & what i fit to the hinds of horse i shoe, before we start talking about trimming a hoof properly & fitting shoes, contracted heels come to mind when i look at your shoes rick, ill let the punters judge,
                                    jacks Ricks
                                    Last edited by jack mac; Jan. 24, 2008, 12:01 AM.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      And these are the fronts

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by hoofrx1 View Post
                                        Albert Einstein defined Insanity as " doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. ..."

                                        So, it would seem we could take that definition and apply it to the consistency of the body of work Jack Mac produces and then draw our conclusions.......
                                        ill let the quality of your work speak for its self Rick. your quite welcome to call me insane
                                        http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/sho...?t=6809&page=3

                                        Comment

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