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Holding a fecal sample ~ Results added

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  • Holding a fecal sample ~ Results added

    How long can I hold a fecal sample before it starts going 'bad'? I am keeping it in the fridge in ziplock bags.

    I've been trying for weeks and weeks to get a fresh sample on this horse, and she finally cooperated with me tonight! But of course it's the weekend, and the absolute earliest I can take it to the vet's is Monday. Tuesday would be more convenient, but I can make the trip on Monday if needed.

    Never had this problem before. I usually just grab the sample and drive straight to the vet.
    Last edited by Dawn&Reno; Sep. 27, 2010, 07:08 PM.

  • #2
    You'll be fine over the weekend
    http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=15246
    (not sure WHAT the heck is up with the differences between us and Denmark though! )

    http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=5193
    Fresh samples work best, but accurate results can be obtained up to seven days after collection if the sample is kept refrigerated during the interim.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by JB View Post
      You'll be fine over the weekend
      http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=15246
      (not sure WHAT the heck is up with the differences between us and Denmark though! )

      http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=5193[U]
      Awesome! So you don't think waiting till Tuesday would have a negative impact as opposed to Monday?

      I'd really like to take it to my alternate vet that's closer to where I live now. But I just realized tonight that I have no clue where their office is? Guess I'll call them Monday and check prices and get directions. If they're a go, I'll just take it Monday. If I take it to my 'normal' vet, I'll probably wait till Tuesday. It's a bit of a drive and gas isn't exactly cheap right now.

      I'm very anxiously awaiting the results from this fecal. It's been awhile since I've actually expected one to have any significant amount of eggs in it. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.

      Comment


      • #4
        It's best to get it to the clinic the same day. There is (unless they do them in house) additional shipping time to send them to the lab. I wouldn't bother with a sample two or three days old.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          They do them in house at the vet I regularly use. If they don't at the other vet, I won't use them. (Too much hassle and time for 'stuff' to go wrong.) I've literally be trying for over a month to catch a fresh sample with her! If I can get another before Monday, then I'll obviously use it. But I'm not holding my breathe.

          Comment


          • #6
            My vet clinic wants them same day. They won't take them after 24 hours old.

            I've found the best way to get a sample of everybody in the farm is to have a "trailer day." Hook up the horse trailer, park it in front of the barn, and load them one by one. Every single horse has to crap as soon as they see the trailer. Have the bags labeled and set up, pick up the balls, stuff in the bag, get the next horse. LOL

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by Auventera Two View Post
              My vet clinic wants them same day. They won't take them after 24 hours old.

              I've found the best way to get a sample of everybody in the farm is to have a "trailer day." Hook up the horse trailer, park it in front of the barn, and load them one by one. Every single horse has to crap as soon as they see the trailer. Have the bags labeled and set up, pick up the balls, stuff in the bag, get the next horse. LOL
              You won't believe everything I've tried! I've tried working her, leaving her in the crossties while I'm out of sight, getting out the water hose (that's usually a guarantee right there!), taking her temp, picking up her feet, trimming her feet, grooming, light massage, promising her treats if she'll just poop! anything and everything I've tried. Well, except for the trailer, because I don't have one at the barn.

              I'll try again tomorrow and Sunday, and probably even go out for a bit Monday before I run the sample up to see if I can get a fresher one.

              About 30 minutes after I collected it, I had it in an airtight bag and in the fridge.

              Comment


              • #8
                Awwwww, this thread is no fun. I thought you were standing there actually holding a handful of horse poop. (Although that would mean you were typing one handed, which actually is sort of stupid once I think about it...)

                But I still like my visual more than your real issue.
                Last edited by Lord Helpus; Sep. 25, 2010, 09:25 AM.
                "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

                Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Lord Helpus View Post
                  Awwwww, this thread is no fun. I thought you were standing there actually holding a handful of horse poop. (Although that would mean you were tying one handed, which actually is sort of stupid once I think about it...)

                  But I still like my visual more than your real issue.
                  Haha! I actually did have to transfer it after I got to my house. This would be the day I didn't have any baggies with me. I had to put on a rubber glove, pick up a handful, and invert it. Then transfer that to the baggy. Much messier.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Well, good news. I got another one today! So scrapped the yesterday's and kept this one. If only I could get so lucky as to get one again tomorrow?

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Well, I got my result at 50 epg. So happy with that! I was expecting much worse news considering others in the area.

                      She was dewormed 21 weeks ago with Quest Plus (May 3rd).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dawn&Reno View Post
                        Well, I got my result at 50 epg. So happy with that! I was expecting much worse news considering others in the area.

                        She was dewormed 21 weeks ago with Quest Plus (May 3rd).
                        That's an interesting result...I've been using Horseman's Lab and anything under 200, they categorize as "negative". With such a low count, is your vet/lab recommending de-worming or no?? Just curious....

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Dune View Post
                          That's an interesting result...I've been using Horseman's Lab and anything under 200, they categorize as "negative". With such a low count, is your vet/lab recommending de-worming or no?? Just curious....
                          I didn't really go in depth with her on it as I knew what I intended to do without their advice. Though thinking back on it, it would have been interesting to get their 'official' opinion on what to do with a variety of situations. Maybe I'll call back in a few days and quiz them on their standard protocol.

                          Her actual response was "It was 50 eggs per gram, which isn't bad at all. That means there was only 2 eggs in the sample used. So whatever you've been doing, you must be doing something right." So she didn't actually word for word tell me not to deworm, but I'm sure (based on that response) that if I had asked, that would have been the answer

                          I would much rather them tell me the 'actual' results vs. a simple negative, medium, high, etc... (Which they've actually improved on that in the past several years. Particularly before I knew to actually ask. They were running fec's but not giving epg results. Though if I'd asked, they would have. I just didn't know to ask.)

                          There have been several people in this area (I'm on the TN/VA border) and over into NC that have had very high fec results this time around when they normally have had very low results. So I was afraid that the same thing would prove true with me. Our weather has been quite wet off and on through the summer. So even though it's been consistently in the mid to upper 90's, I was concerned. Thankfully though, this was right on target with what is 'normal' for this horse. She's also been at the current facility for just over a year now. So I was curious as to whether that would affect her or not. (She's actually in a much less high risk situation for reinfection at this barn. Previous barn was a nightmare as far as parasite management went. She still kept low levels there. But I was a bit more aggressive on deworming her (which likely was not needed with her).

                          I typically don't do her 'late fall' deworming until late November or even early December. It takes that long for us to be consistently cold and frosting. I'm planning to have another fec done between now and then though just to keep an eye on what's going on.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Oh, and just to be clear, I will not be deworming her at this time. (Just realize I never specified!)

                            If her next fecal comes back below 200 epg, then in late November or early December, she'll be dosed with Quest Plus. Then in early spring (typically March/April here), she'll be dosed with Quest Plus again.

                            If it works out timewise (at least 16ish weeks between the Quest Plus doses), I'll do another fec then to see what's up just for records and reference use.

                            On the other hand, if her next fecal comes back with a 'dewormable' result, then I'd really like to try a dose of pyrantel pamoate and do an reduction test to determine how effective it is here. If it's not effective or only moderately so, it'll be almost time to do the Quest Plus by then anway. Thought it'd be a good time to experiment if the situation arrises.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yep, a count of 50 is a good reason NOT to deworm.

                              If this was a suddenly, surprising low count (not the case here), then it would be well worth checking again in 2-4 weeks to see if this was a false low.

                              Just curious - why use the QP this Nov/Dec, and then again Mar/Apr? Your last product was QP. Why not use Equimax as your last dose this year? Just curious
                              ______________________________
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                JB - do you have a regular worming schedule in mind? Similar to EqTrainers?
                                FREE TACK/APPAREL ADS: BITS AND BARTER BOARD: http://bitsandbarter.proboards.com/i...ay&thread=5450

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by JB View Post
                                  Yep, a count of 50 is a good reason NOT to deworm.

                                  If this was a suddenly, surprising low count (not the case here), then it would be well worth checking again in 2-4 weeks to see if this was a false low.

                                  Just curious - why use the QP this Nov/Dec, and then again Mar/Apr? Your last product was QP. Why not use Equimax as your last dose this year? Just curious
                                  I prefer to use it for encysted strongyles. I'd probably be fine with once a year, but twice a year is more 'comfy' for me.

                                  And for the 'real' reason, I loaded up on QP while it was still available, and if I don't use it for the fall and spring doses, it'll be expired before the next fall dose I actually had two more tubes, but sold them cause I knew I wouldn't be using them soon enough.

                                  Still trying to figure out my plan of action after that last dose (this spring) is gone. I've got some ideas, but nothing I'm truely loving. I'll probably end up doing Equimax in the fall. Then Quest followed by double pyrantel pamoate about a month later in the spring. I'm still on the fence about it, but I've got a year to figure out exactly what I'll do. On the other hand, maybe they'll have Quest Plus (or a comparable product) back out by then.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Gotcha. But, instead of "Then Quest followed by double pyrantel pamoate about a month later in the spring." I'd go the other way around - dd pp for the tapes, then Quest 4 weeks later

                                    Equimax after the freeze is perfectly valid if you've done a Power Pack or used Quest in the Spring sometime.

                                    naters - did that also answer your question?
                                    ______________________________
                                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Any particular reason on the tapes before the Quest? (I've considered several different scenarios, all with pro's and con's.)

                                      I'm also wondering if I start using Equimax in the fall if I'll be having 'positive' fecals coming back before spring. It's been a non-issue so far because of the timing of the Quest doseages. So I really don't know how well she manages her levels on her own during the winter.

                                      Last winter, really didn't concern me much because we spent so much time with full snow cover. (The amount and frequency of snow cover we had was quite shocking. I hope to not experience another winter like that in this area. Much too much for my tastes.) Without the snow cover of last year though, it's not at all uncommon to have 'nibble grazing' available pretty much year round. Hay is still required, I'm not talking about pasture grazing. But they do definately forage around and spend quite a bit of time away from the hay. How valid do you think that concern is (of being more likely to pick up parasites through the winter)? I guess if I did an early early spring deworming for the tapes, it might also take care of any strongyle problem she'd picked up over the winter?

                                      Would you prefer (personally) the fall or spring for Quest use? Any reasoning on one or the other?

                                      Originally posted by JB View Post
                                      Gotcha. But, instead of "Then Quest followed by double pyrantel pamoate about a month later in the spring." I'd go the other way around - dd pp for the tapes, then Quest 4 weeks later

                                      Equimax after the freeze is perfectly valid if you've done a Power Pack or used Quest in the Spring sometime.

                                      naters - did that also answer your question?

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Dawn&Reno View Post
                                        Any particular reason on the tapes before the Quest? (I've considered several different scenarios, all with pro's and con's.)
                                        It's actually not about tapes before Quest It's about chemical longevity and the worms you've killed, or not, and what's left.

                                        Using Quest first will kill all the adult strongyles. 4 weeks later, you may have some juvies, but they won't be killed by the pyrantel pamoate, even in a double dose. You're just exposing them to the chemical, and prolonging the issue of the resistance.

                                        But by doing the pyrantel first, you kill whatever few strongyles (and most of the tapes) it will get, and then 4 weeks later the Quest will kill the rest of the strongyles. Yes, there is still the issue of having potentially some juvies present who won't be killed, but the number is smaller.

                                        I'm also wondering if I start using Equimax in the fall if I'll be having 'positive' fecals coming back before spring. It's been a non-issue so far because of the timing of the Quest doseages. So I really don't know how well she manages her levels on her own during the winter.
                                        Don't know the answer to that. It's only a 4 week reduction in effectiveness, so it's not as if you're leaving her open for months on end with no protection

                                        Last winter, really didn't concern me much because we spent so much time with full snow cover. (The amount and frequency of snow cover we had was quite shocking. I hope to not experience another winter like that in this area. Much too much for my tastes.) Without the snow cover of last year though, it's not at all uncommon to have 'nibble grazing' available pretty much year round. Hay is still required, I'm not talking about pasture grazing. But they do definately forage around and spend quite a bit of time away from the hay. How valid do you think that concern is (of being more likely to pick up parasites through the winter)? I guess if I did an early early spring deworming for the tapes, it might also take care of any strongyle problem she'd picked up over the winter?
                                        It's certainly part of the equation. However, from what I'm reading, the cold temperatures make for slow to no larval development, so it's really the warming up in the Spring which make for the early infestation. I need to find that article again - I posted it on one of the recent deworming threads. The recommendations (in the ideal world LOL) were to keep horses off early Spring pasture for X time when infestation rates would be high. I need to bone up on those details

                                        Would you prefer (personally) the fall or spring for Quest use? Any reasoning on one or the other?
                                        I believe, again from what I've read (and part of this is in that article) that Spring is the prime time for encysted strongyle awakening, making it a better choice for killing them. Fall is a not-distant second.
                                        ______________________________
                                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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