Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You're responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it--details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums' policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it's understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users' profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses -- Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it's related to a horse for sale, regardless of who's selling it, it doesn't belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions -- Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services -- Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products -- While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements -- Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be "bumped" excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues -- Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators' discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you'd rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user's membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Negative palmer angle

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
    Original Poster

    #21
    Originally posted by EmilyM View Post
    On the equipak- how long has he been using that? Some horses can’t handle that much pressure. Could that be contributing to lameness?
    is he in frog pads or using the equi pack to support frog?
    just grasping at ideas for you.
    Equipak for frog support. It’s poured under a leather pad. It almost looks like someone poured a hot glue gun all underneath. Definitely agreed it’s too much pressure. When I talked to vet a few days after shoeing he thinks this is contributing to lameness and asked farrier to pull some packing. Farrier suggested doing a “softer” equipak. Has been in shoes/pads for 6 days now. Horse was previously barefoot.

    I keep suggesting something different, but everything I suggest is shot down for some reason or another. I think there’s too much pressure with wedge pads and pour in. There has to be another way to support the frog. He was better today though...still taking some lame steps going left but overall better.
    Last edited by ThoroughbredLuver; Sep. 13, 2020, 07:04 PM.

    Comment


      #22
      My mare struggles with NPA behind and hi/lo syndrome in front. The hardest part was finding a farrier who understood the pathology. The second hardest part was straightening out body soreness caused by bad angles over time.

      I tried hard to make barefoot work for this mare, but she just wasn't comfortable and blew through expensive hoof boots in 24-hour turnout. Couldn't make casts work because she had zero heel height - the casts would constantly slip off like mule slippers. Glue-ons didn't work - the amount of glue needed to create a neutral angle created way too much of a wedge-effect. Too much wedge caused serious soreness behind due to a pre-existing fetlock injury.

      The golden ticket for my mare was a few cycles in a duo ellipse shoe. It got her off her heels and allowed successful, CORRECT stimulation the back of the hoof without crushing the heel. The Equine Documentalist on Facebook has a few well-written articles explaining the ellipse shoe and the overall impact of NPA on the horse.

      Good luck!

      Comment

        Original Poster

        #23
        Originally posted by EverElite View Post
        My mare struggles with NPA behind and hi/lo syndrome in front. The hardest part was finding a farrier who understood the pathology. The second hardest part was straightening out body soreness caused by bad angles over time.

        I tried hard to make barefoot work for this mare, but she just wasn't comfortable and blew through expensive hoof boots in 24-hour turnout. Couldn't make casts work because she had zero heel height - the casts would constantly slip off like mule slippers. Glue-ons didn't work - the amount of glue needed to create a neutral angle created way too much of a wedge-effect. Too much wedge caused serious soreness behind due to a pre-existing fetlock injury.

        The golden ticket for my mare was a few cycles in a duo ellipse shoe. It got her off her heels and allowed successful, CORRECT stimulation the back of the hoof without crushing the heel. The Equine Documentalist on Facebook has a few well-written articles explaining the ellipse shoe and the overall impact of NPA on the horse.

        Good luck!
        Thank you! I’m glad you found something that worked for your girl! It sounds like a lot of this might be trial and error. I do think I’m on the right path...horse was much sounder today, but still threw in some lame steps. Different farrier is coming tomorrow to address frog support so fingers crossed!

        body soreness has played a HUGE part in my guy. Resistance going forward, primarily riding and lunging left. He cannot extend out and locked in left shoulder. Instead of moving out in the trot, he canters short up and down steps. I’m planning to give this horse off a while to let his body catch up for this exact reason. I’ve been giving magnesium which has seemed to help, but I’m hoping to find the right “recipe” for this guy.

        Thanks for sharing your experience....I do truly feel better the more I talk to people about this!

        Comment


          #24
          Originally posted by ThoroughbredLuver View Post

          Equipak for frog support. It’s poured under a leather pad. It almost looks like someone poured a hot glue gun all underneath. Definitely agreed it’s too much pressure. When I talked to vet a few days after shoeing he thinks this is contributing to lameness and asked farrier to pull some packing. Farrier suggested doing a “softer” equipak. Has been in shoes/pads for 6 days now. Horse was previously barefoot.

          I keep suggesting something different, but everything I suggest is shot down for some reason or another. I think there’s too much pressure with wedge pads and pour in. There has to be another way to support the frog. He was better today though...still taking some lame steps going left but overall better.
          There are frog pads which you can use. Has the farrier ever suggested that? Perhaps similar effect but not painful?

          Comment


            #25
            I lived this for three years. I was in the a Bay Area with minimal options and when I moved I found a farrier who does composites, Epona to be exact. For 6 months we were on a 4 week cycle with the farrier and vet in attendance for x-rays. Reversed the NP and my horse is sound. She won’t ever go back in steel. Her confirmation and what she needs with her break over just won’t allow it. We popped a suspensory in wedges and steel, so that was my final straw.

            the Eponas allow the farrier to build a lot of support into the package and essentially do light wedging with the glue. Results depend on how much the farrier is interested in the composite technology. For us, the composite shoe allows more setback. My NP issues are not helped by my horses confirmation. She is redone at 5 weeks, but could be done always at 4.

            Equipak under a pad always made her lame regardless of the kind. I was skeptical of the Epona package with dental impression material under it, but somehow the web of the shoe base give so much support it’s never been an issue. My horse has heels now and rarely takes an off step. The negative angles have totally reversed and we have lovely sole depth.

            Comment

              Original Poster

              #26
              Originally posted by EmilyM View Post

              There are frog pads which you can use. Has the farrier ever suggested that? Perhaps similar effect but not painful?
              That’s originally what the vet wanted, but moving down the Florida the farrier doesn’t want any plastic pads on his feet with the humidity, which I can understand. He did clear with the vet and vet was fine with said leather pads and equipak. Vet did say to come pull some of the packing to elevate the pressure, but farrier said something has to go under leather pad for support. I have suggested many things, but all have reasoning why they won’t work

              Sooo....not sure what else will work! Hopefully this all makes sense!

              Comment

                Original Poster

                #27
                Originally posted by Sfbayequine View Post
                I lived this for three years. I was in the a Bay Area with minimal options and when I moved I found a farrier who does composites, Epona to be exact. For 6 months we were on a 4 week cycle with the farrier and vet in attendance for x-rays. Reversed the NP and my horse is sound. She won’t ever go back in steel. Her confirmation and what she needs with her break over just won’t allow it. We popped a suspensory in wedges and steel, so that was my final straw.

                the Eponas allow the farrier to build a lot of support into the package and essentially do light wedging with the glue. Results depend on how much the farrier is interested in the composite technology. For us, the composite shoe allows more setback. My NP issues are not helped by my horses confirmation. She is redone at 5 weeks, but could be done always at 4.

                Equipak under a pad always made her lame regardless of the kind. I was skeptical of the Epona package with dental impression material under it, but somehow the web of the shoe base give so much support it’s never been an issue. My horse has heels now and rarely takes an off step. The negative angles have totally reversed and we have lovely sole depth.
                That makes me very nervous with the suspensory on my guy

                Is the horse still in this corrective shoeing? I have read some things about the composite shoe. I am willing to try anything for this horse, if it means he will be and stay sounder, but definitely don’t want to risk another injury as a result of correcting the NPA incorrectly. It kind of scares me how many options there are to fix this. Wish it was a little more black and white LOL!

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by ThoroughbredLuver View Post

                  That makes me very nervous with the suspensory on my guy

                  Is the horse still in this corrective shoeing? I have read some things about the composite shoe. I am willing to try anything for this horse, if it means he will be and stay sounder, but definitely don’t want to risk another injury as a result of correcting the NPA incorrectly. It kind of scares me how many options there are to fix this. Wish it was a little more black and white LOL!
                  With all you have said, I would honestly go back to the drawing board with a specialist vet and farrier that can think outside the box a little more. I worry that you have an injury in there besides just NPA. I have never personally had good results with wedges and sole packing .. the horse always ends up moving like a wheelbarrow, maybe doesn't look "lame" but doesn't look comfortable either.

                  If he doesn't otherwise need shoes, you could consider hoof boots with wedge pads as an option (and a trimmer/farrier that is very knowledgeable in using them), with a short trim cycle.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by ThoroughbredLuver View Post

                    Equipak for frog support. It’s poured under a leather pad. It almost looks like someone poured a hot glue gun all underneath. Definitely agreed it’s too much pressure. When I talked to vet a few days after shoeing he thinks this is contributing to lameness and asked farrier to pull some packing. Farrier suggested doing a “softer” equipak. Has been in shoes/pads for 6 days now. Horse was previously barefoot.

                    I keep suggesting something different, but everything I suggest is shot down for some reason or another. I think there’s too much pressure with wedge pads and pour in. There has to be another way to support the frog. He was better today though...still taking some lame steps going left but overall better.
                    It does sound like he cannot handle the pressure from the Equipak. Does it cover the entire bottom of the foot or just the back half? He can use DIM (dental impression material) with a leather pad. You don't need to cover the whole bottom of the foot. The job of the DIM is to support the collateral grooves aka commesures (sp) so the wedge does not add more pressure to the heels and more even distribute the weight across the back of the foot. The walls and bars are not meant to take on the weight of the horse by themselves. the frog and sole have a role in weight bearing as well.

                    Composites by someone experienced in therapeutic shoeing work very good as well. Here is an example of nice setup.
                    https://www.daisyhavenfarm.com/blog/...age-management
                    Boyle Heights Kid 1998 16.1h OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
                    Quiet Miracle 2010 16.1h OTTB Bay Gelding
                    "Once you go off track, you never go back!"

                    Comment

                      Original Poster

                      #30
                      Originally posted by BoyleHeightsKid View Post

                      It does sound like he cannot handle the pressure from the Equipak. Does it cover the entire bottom of the foot or just the back half? He can use DIM (dental impression material) with a leather pad. You don't need to cover the whole bottom of the foot. The job of the DIM is to support the collateral grooves aka commesures (sp) so the wedge does not add more pressure to the heels and more even distribute the weight across the back of the foot. The walls and bars are not meant to take on the weight of the horse by themselves. the frog and sole have a role in weight bearing as well.

                      Composites by someone experienced in therapeutic shoeing work very good as well. Here is an example of nice setup.
                      https://www.daisyhavenfarm.com/blog/...age-management
                      The front half has magic cushion, the back has the equipak. It does seem like pretty hard material though. I do think this is causing quite a bit of pressure and adding to the caudal foot pain. Farrier recommended a “softer” equipak.

                      Thanks for the read on composite shoes...I was actually just doing some reading after the above post mentioned composite shoes!
                      Last edited by ThoroughbredLuver; Sep. 14, 2020, 01:20 PM.

                      Comment


                        #31
                        Originally posted by ThoroughbredLuver View Post

                        The front half has magic cushion, the back has the equipak. It does seem like pretty hard material though. I do think this is causing quite a bit of pressure and adding to the cadual foot pain. Farrier recommended a “softer” equipak.

                        Thanks for the read on composite shoes...I was actually just doing some reading after the above post mentioned composite shoes!
                        Daisy is REALLY good... she has a lot of information on her website.
                        Boyle Heights Kid 1998 16.1h OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
                        Quiet Miracle 2010 16.1h OTTB Bay Gelding
                        "Once you go off track, you never go back!"

                        Comment


                          #32
                          Originally posted by ThoroughbredLuver View Post

                          That makes me very nervous with the suspensory on my guy

                          Is the horse still in this corrective shoeing? I have read some things about the composite shoe. I am willing to try anything for this horse, if it means he will be and stay sounder, but definitely don’t want to risk another injury as a result of correcting the NPA incorrectly. It kind of scares me how many options there are to fix this. Wish it was a little more black and white LOL!
                          hey, sorry for taking a bit to get back. Yes, my horse will be in composites, the Eponas, forever. We shoe fairly normally now at 5 weeks. Much less glue wedge. She has been in everything and this is what works.

                          You know I did have some luck for a long time with a great farrier who did leather pads. We filled the space with a pine tar like filler after we saw how sore she was from equipak. Unfortunately with her confirmation and toe growth she just couldn’t hold it for the long run. The wedges lasted a year and then lameness/suspensory.

                          there are some phenomenal options out there. If you can find a farrier who is open to it and a vet willing to support it, there is so much science around different options. My composite application was a bit more than just plastic slapped on with glue. There were x-rays, lots of measurements, casting and glue before she graduated to nails. Then a slow evolution to a regular shoeing in the Eponas that are glued and nailed. The hoof growth and remodeling has been phenomenal. I’ve never seen her with heels until we went this route.

                          Check out Shane Westman’s Facebook page. He is the UC Davis in house farrier. He posts some great info on all kinds of creative shoeing for different cases. He did my girl when she was there last month for Her THO surgery. He is not my regular farrier, but he posts some really educational stuff.

                          Not all composites are equal. Not all applications are the same. The trim is different and the glue package can be complicated. It’s more than just ordering and having a regular farrier apply them. Honestly, this was a last chance option for my mare. She was looking at a life of lameness and pasture puff status. It worked for us, but we were super dedicated to it. Good luck!

                          Comment


                            #33
                            Originally posted by ThoroughbredLuver View Post

                            Did you use a wedge shoe to get the 4 degree wedge with no pads? I was told a pad of some sort was necessary for the frog support for my guy. I am not opposed to a pad, but would love to eventually get rid of wedges also. However, my farrier told me the horse will be in them forever

                            I don’t think it’s good my horse now moves like crap AND isn’t any sounder after shoeing. I know it doesn’t help this is his first set of shoes, but I’ve seen plenty of young horses with their first set of shoes and none move “crappier” like he has. He went from the hack winner to probably not even pinning. Definitely not important, but just as a point of reference for how much his gait as changed.
                            Correct, no pads. This horse has a lot of foot but the angle is off for his bony structure. My farrier said we would try to get him out of wedges but some horses do need to stay in them.

                            My only horse that had pads for frog support had them due to thin soles, he was a tb with long toe and underrun heels. That horse could only tolerate a certain amount of frog pressure. For example he couldn't go in heart bar shoes but could go in heart bar pads under his shoes.

                            Comment

                              Original Poster

                              #34
                              Just out of curiosity...has anyone fed any supplements that has helped with this? Such as LaminaSaver or farrier’s formula?

                              With all the articles that have been shared plus my research I understand diet can have a huge impact. I’ve been trying to read more on any changes I can make to his diet. He is a *very* easy keeper, is on a ration balancer, but I would not be surprised if he is missing something in his diet.

                              Any recommendations for any feed changes? Perhaps there is a gap in feeding that I am missing. He’s currently on 1.5 pounds of triple crown ration balancer gold daily. He is also on a magnesium supplement, but that is it.

                              Comment


                                #35
                                Originally posted by ThoroughbredLuver View Post
                                Just out of curiosity...has anyone fed any supplements that has helped with this? Such as LaminaSaver or farrier’s formula?

                                With all the articles that have been shared plus my research I understand diet can have a huge impact. I’ve been trying to read more on any changes I can make to his diet. He is a *very* easy keeper, is on a ration balancer, but I would not be surprised if he is missing something in his diet.

                                Any recommendations for any feed changes? Perhaps there is a gap in feeding that I am missing. He’s currently on 1.5 pounds of triple crown ration balancer gold daily. He is also on a magnesium supplement, but that is it.
                                The best thing you can do is test your hay if at all possible then balance the diet from that.. if you can't there are many quality supplements that can help fill in the holes that are probably there, most notably copper and zinc. TC typically has a nice amino acid profile and is a nice ration balancer.

                                Farriers Formula is a very popular supplement but unfortunately you would most likely need to feed 2,3x's the serving to reach the copper and zinc levels you need.
                                :
                                Supplements that have a more sufficient level of copper and zinc:
                                If you like stuff premixed for you
                                California Trace or Trace Plus https://www.californiatrace.com/
                                Vermont Blend https://customequinenutrition.com/pr.../vermont-blend
                                KIS Trace
                                I was checking out Hay Harmony and that looks pretty nice too.

                                since you're already feeding a ration balancer it's possible that all you need is copper and zinc
                                This one is already mixed
                                https://customequinenutrition.com/pr...-free-shipping

                                or you can buy copper and zinc separately from Uckele, Horsetech and California Trace

                                Boyle Heights Kid 1998 16.1h OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
                                Quiet Miracle 2010 16.1h OTTB Bay Gelding
                                "Once you go off track, you never go back!"

                                Comment

                                  Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by BoyleHeightsKid View Post

                                  The best thing you can do is test your hay if at all possible then balance the diet from that.. if you can't there are many quality supplements that can help fill in the holes that are probably there, most notably copper and zinc. TC typically has a nice amino acid profile and is a nice ration balancer.

                                  Farriers Formula is a very popular supplement but unfortunately you would most likely need to feed 2,3x's the serving to reach the copper and zinc levels you need.
                                  :
                                  Supplements that have a more sufficient level of copper and zinc:
                                  If you like stuff premixed for you
                                  California Trace or Trace Plus https://www.californiatrace.com/
                                  Vermont Blend https://customequinenutrition.com/pr.../vermont-blend
                                  KIS Trace
                                  I was checking out Hay Harmony and that looks pretty nice too.

                                  since you're already feeding a ration balancer it's possible that all you need is copper and zinc
                                  This one is already mixed
                                  https://customequinenutrition.com/pr...-free-shipping

                                  or you can buy copper and zinc separately from Uckele, Horsetech and California Trace
                                  You are WONDERFUL! Thank you

                                  Comment


                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by ThoroughbredLuver View Post

                                    You are WONDERFUL! Thank you
                                    and to make things just a little more challenging you want to try to stay away from anything that has added iron because more likely than not, they are getting much more iron then they need.

                                    If you can estimate the iron in the diet, that will help you figure out how much copper an zinc you need
                                    Boyle Heights Kid 1998 16.1h OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
                                    Quiet Miracle 2010 16.1h OTTB Bay Gelding
                                    "Once you go off track, you never go back!"

                                    Comment


                                      #38
                                      Hi! Fellow NPA (significant) TB owner and having success rehabbing.
                                      It’s likely the packing is too much pressure. And if the frog is prolapsed and being squished between a pad, that’s not comfortable either. Soles and frogs don’t like static pressure, they want pressure and release.
                                      Soft or extra soft dental impression material (DIM) can be more forgiving under pads. As for preventing foot funk under pads, packing or DIM, use a antimicrobial clay called Artimud that’s proven over and over to be effective treatment/preventative.

                                      But what does the phalangeal alignment look like in the rads with the current shoe package? Palmer angle isn’t the entire picture, you need the boney column in alignment as well. I think sometimes that gets missed as we focus so much on the palmer angle. It could be the current shoe package is not achieving optimal alignment AND the packing is too much pressure. If the PA was -1.3 and you add a 3 deg wedge, that’s only a 2.3 degree PA with this shoe package...which is not optimal nor good enough for some horses.

                                      As I’ve gone through this rehab journey I’ve learned that heel height comes from within, and the recipe for success is optimal diet (as mentioned above), correct heel first landings/movement and correct trim. You have to put the back of the foot back to work and build back digital cushion and cannot let the toe get away from you. Just be sure that whatever shoe package is on this horse that the back of the foot be properly supported to actually FIX the issue.

                                      After being less than impressed with my farrier and wedges, I opted to go barefoot and use boots and pads and haven’t looked back! It was quite a foreign concept to me (especially hoof boots!) but I had seen so many success stories I had to try.
                                      Her heel wall angle has increased by 15 degrees in 3 months. I have not gotten new rads to reassess palmar angle. Her feet are growing like crazy because the diet is right and the circulation is not compromised. Her frogs have plumped up a ton.

                                      If you don’t already, you should follow Progressive Equine Services in AUS. https://www.facebook.com/hoofscanandhoofcarecentre/
                                      They are a wealth of knowledge on caudal failure and corrective shoeing. Tons of visual examples to learn from.


                                      Comment

                                        Original Poster

                                        #39
                                        Originally posted by Satin Filly View Post
                                        Hi! Fellow NPA (significant) TB owner and having success rehabbing.
                                        It’s likely the packing is too much pressure. And if the frog is prolapsed and being squished between a pad, that’s not comfortable either. Soles and frogs don’t like static pressure, they want pressure and release.
                                        Soft or extra soft dental impression material (DIM) can be more forgiving under pads. As for preventing foot funk under pads, packing or DIM, use a antimicrobial clay called Artimud that’s proven over and over to be effective treatment/preventative.

                                        But what does the phalangeal alignment look like in the rads with the current shoe package? Palmer angle isn’t the entire picture, you need the boney column in alignment as well. I think sometimes that gets missed as we focus so much on the palmer angle. It could be the current shoe package is not achieving optimal alignment AND the packing is too much pressure. If the PA was -1.3 and you add a 3 deg wedge, that’s only a 2.3 degree PA with this shoe package...which is not optimal nor good enough for some horses.

                                        As I’ve gone through this rehab journey I’ve learned that heel height comes from within, and the recipe for success is optimal diet (as mentioned above), correct heel first landings/movement and correct trim. You have to put the back of the foot back to work and build back digital cushion and cannot let the toe get away from you. Just be sure that whatever shoe package is on this horse that the back of the foot be properly supported to actually FIX the issue.

                                        After being less than impressed with my farrier and wedges, I opted to go barefoot and use boots and pads and haven’t looked back! It was quite a foreign concept to me (especially hoof boots!) but I had seen so many success stories I had to try.
                                        Her heel wall angle has increased by 15 degrees in 3 months. I have not gotten new rads to reassess palmar angle. Her feet are growing like crazy because the diet is right and the circulation is not compromised. Her frogs have plumped up a ton.

                                        If you don’t already, you should follow Progressive Equine Services in AUS. https://www.facebook.com/hoofscanandhoofcarecentre/
                                        They are a wealth of knowledge on caudal failure and corrective shoeing. Tons of visual examples to learn from.

                                        Thanks for all the info! So happy your horse responded well to what you did!!

                                        we got 4 degrees in lift total. 2 in trim and 2 in wedging. Totally agree...packing too hard. He doesn’t have a prolapsed frog, so lucky there! I may go back to barefoot with new farrier, or open to trying something new. Maybe composites??

                                        The structure was not aligned and definitely was part of the correction. I have seen many just look at the NPA, I am glad my vet is so well versed in this and came up with a good game plan going forward. I am very comfortable with his recommendations, it is the farrier I am not. I do think another set of xrays would be beneficial and would like to, but might wait for new farrier to start work, than take them since current farrier will no longer be working on him.

                                        Comment


                                          #40
                                          A couple of more good articles on diet
                                          https://thehorse.com/168731/copper-i...NmPO2-vyo9xlR0
                                          https://www.hoofrehab.com/Diet.html

                                          and if you want to learn more about maintaining barefoot Pete has a lot of very useful information.
                                          https://www.hoofrehab.com/Articles.html
                                          Boyle Heights Kid 1998 16.1h OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
                                          Quiet Miracle 2010 16.1h OTTB Bay Gelding
                                          "Once you go off track, you never go back!"

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X