Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You're responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it--details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums' policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it's understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users' profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses -- Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it's related to a horse for sale, regardless of who's selling it, it doesn't belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions -- Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services -- Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products -- While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements -- Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be "bumped" excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues -- Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators' discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you'd rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user's membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Reasons for horse having trouble getting up?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Reasons for horse having trouble getting up?

    I have a little horse who is making a real effort of getting up. He sits up like a dog, then bends his front legs and rocks himself with them til he can pull himself up with his fronts instead of push with the hinds.
    He is hypermobile, in that his fetlocks drop excessively during movement (but ok standing). Suspensories were scanned and it showed mild chronic damage to left hind proximal suspensory. I asked if he could have DSLD and vets said it’s just chronic damage (DSLD isn’t much heard of here). He’s a very erratic mover in that it’s very hard to keep him straight and rhythmical, every leg seems to do it’s own thing, like trying to lead an eel. Incredibly sensitive, super easy to train. Lacks self preservation, will gallop and leap without thinking if his feet are under him when he lands or corners. Has taken some big falls doing this, both in the field, in hand and under saddle (2 falls under saddle on the flat in his lifetime, 1 in hand a few weeks ago, and at least one a year in the field that I see). Possibly all linked to being hypermobile.

    He flexed ok to hocks and fetlocks, mild positive to left hind fetlock. Palpated as sore over thoracic and lumbar but muscular, x-rays of back are clear. He reins back well, resists tail pull, places feet back in right place when I placed them wrong (although he often leaves one at a random angle himself). Osteopath said his hips seems very tight and sore. But no one can help me to find the key to why he can’t get up easily. He’s a very high energy horse, very forward and enthusiastic, does have RER (muscle myopathy linked to calcium regulation) but recent bloods show normal CK and AST, normal liver, just waiting for vitamin E to come back.

    He is not insured. I feel like I could spend thousands trying to diagnose him as don’t know if it’s neuro, gut, hind limb, back. If I find something fixable I’m happy to do what it takes to make him a happy retired horse.

    Long story short, have you had a horse that pulled themselves up/struggled to get up, and what was their diagnosis?

    Many thanks.

    #2
    I have known two that presented in a similar way. Both were neurological in nature. Where are you located? Have you xrayed his neck?

    Comment

      Original Poster

      #3
      We are across the pond in the UK. Last time he went into vets I was hoping they would X-ray beck but they said he gave them no reason to think he was neurological (backed up great, tight circling fine)) I was a bit disappointed that they didn’t. After one osteo appointment I saw him get up much more easily, but then he suddenly went lame again with a weird crouching walk two days ago and getting up was harder again. Another 24 hours and the crouching walk has stopped.

      Comment


        #4
        The upper hock joints could be a problem. Friend of mine has a mare with upper hock joints who are shot, and she has similar troubles getting up/down - altho nowhere near as dramatic as yours.

        Also, just because your vets aren't well versed in DSLD, does not mean that isn't your whole problem. I can easily see where that 'hypermobility' could cause all these issues.

        And yes, I agree could be neuro.

        Comment


          #5
          Stifles, hocks, SI, hip, any or all could be involved. It takes a LOT of effort to heave that hind end up from the ground.

          Do you notice it being harder when he's laying on one side vs the other?

          Does it look like he's trying to do all the pushing with his hind end, or is he actively using his neck as well?
          ______________________________
          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

          Comment

            Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by JB View Post
            Stifles, hocks, SI, hip, any or all could be involved. It takes a LOT of effort to heave that hind end up from the ground.

            Do you notice it being harder when he's laying on one side vs the other?

            Does it look like he's trying to do all the pushing with his hind end, or is he actively using his neck as well?
            He is equally bad both sides. I don’t think he uses his neck very well. I Would say he tried to do most of the work with his front legs and shoulders, using them to claw the ground and rock to create momentum to then get his hind end up. He bobs his head a bit but when I compare it to our older horse with dodgy hocks he makes it look so much harder. Older horse really uses the whole head and neck to lever down and forwards and pings the back end up easily.

            Comment

              Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by Obsidian Fire View Post
              The upper hock joints could be a problem. Friend of mine has a mare with upper hock joints who are shot, and she has similar troubles getting up/down - altho nowhere near as dramatic as yours.

              Also, just because your vets aren't well versed in DSLD, does not mean that isn't your whole problem. I can easily see where that 'hypermobility' could cause all these issues.

              And yes, I agree could be neuro.
              He flexed ok on the hinds other than right hind fetlock, would he flex ok if upper hock was an issue? I definitely agree that DSLD could still be an issue, it’s not really something you hear of over here so I did ask but they said his left hind suspensory was normal. But I do wonder if he is trying to avoid putting pressure through his hypermobile fetlocks, as if he doesn’t trust them.

              Comment


                #8
                Good info, so it really would be worth starting at his front end, neck and withers, as opposed to the hind end. That's not right at all, poor guy
                ______________________________
                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                Comment

                  Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by JB View Post
                  Good info, so it really would be worth starting at his front end, neck and withers, as opposed to the hind end. That's not right at all, poor guy
                  I definitely should have pushed my vets harder when we were at the clinic for neck xrays. Not really their fault as typically when he went in he looked great, trotted up well, they even let him roll and he got up better than usual, so I can see why they dismissed the idea of neck.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Ii might be helpful to have a cell phone handy, to video his abnormal movement and difficulty rising. You can then show the videos to your vet.

                    Comment

                      Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by skydy View Post
                      Ii might be helpful to have a cell phone handy, to video his abnormal movement and difficulty rising. You can then show the videos to your vet.
                      I do this obsessively! I must have about 30 videos now of him getting up. Plus my phone gallery is full of shots of his legs, his posture, his eyes/expression, trot ups, slow motion etc. But still they can’t tell me why he is having such a hard time.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        It's surprising that the vets saw your videos of his struggle to rise, and not having a diagnosis, thought that neck x-rays were unnecessary.

                        Lunabear1988 has had horse with neuro problems diagnosed recently https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f...-about-balance

                        Comment

                          Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by skydy View Post
                          It's surprising that the vets saw your videos of his struggle to rise, and not having a diagnosis, thought that neck x-rays were unnecessary.

                          Lunabear1988 has had horse with neuro problems diagnosed recently https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f...-about-balance
                          Thanks for the link. It’s like the vets are thinking more of the lameness and not necessarily about the getting up issue, which may or may not have the same cause. He doesn’t obviously fail neuro tests but Neck seems a fairly simple thing to check off with a quick X-ray to rule out the obvious.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Marzie yeah I would push for neck x-rays. My horse was a little wonky in one neurological exam (but not too extreme at all. Mostly the tail pull is what stood out) but basically passed a Neuro exam at the clinic. Until he had a freakish fall. Then they thought neck.

                            My horse hasn't yet shown trouble getting up as far as struggling. But I think he's laying down less. And the other day he got half way down (to his knees) and decided to scrape laying down and rolling. So I wonder if he thinks he might have trouble or if it's getting hard for him to lay down.

                            Best wishes!! I hope it's nothing major.

                            Comment

                              Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Lunabear1988 View Post
                              Marzie yeah I would push for neck x-rays. My horse was a little wonky in one neurological exam (but not too extreme at all. Mostly the tail pull is what stood out) but basically passed a Neuro exam at the clinic. Until he had a freakish fall. Then they thought neck.

                              My horse hasn't yet shown trouble getting up as far as struggling. But I think he's laying down less. And the other day he got half way down (to his knees) and decided to scrape laying down and rolling. So I wonder if he thinks he might have trouble or if it's getting hard for him to lay down.

                              Best wishes!! I hope it's nothing major.
                              Thank you so much and I’m sorry to read about your horse. It’s just heartbreaking trying to do right by them. Part of me thinks if he can’t get up easily it’s time to call it a day. But I feel I need to give it a last shot in case there is something solvable that we just haven’t found yet. Vets didn’t do a full neuro exam when he went in, probably because he decided to look so good, pinged along the trot up and on the lunge and got up fine when they let him roll. I did some of the tests at home. He seems to place his legs back ok. Tail pull I just did standing and pulled him over on the first pull one side but then resisted well on second pull. The other side he resisted straight away. So I think generally ok. But there must be something. No other horse I know gets up with this much effort. I might try to set the camera up to record today.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Marzie it's unreal. I thought I was paranoid. I wish I was...

                                Your horse might not be presenting neurologically but I sure would wonder about pain somewhere. I would think it could be so many things though to manifest that way! You are a good owner to keep looking into this.

                                One question, you said his back x-rays were clear? Did they also do an ultrasound? My horse has lumbar arthritis that was only found through ultrasound for what it is worth. Of course most vets do both, so you might of had it done already.

                                Best of luck. Keep us posted.

                                ​​​​​

                                Comment

                                  Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Lunabear1988 View Post
                                  Marzie it's unreal. I thought I was paranoid. I wish I was...

                                  Your horse might not be presenting neurologically but I sure would wonder about pain somewhere. I would think it could be so many things though to manifest that way! You are a good owner to keep looking into this.

                                  One question, you said his back x-rays were clear? Did they also do an ultrasound? My horse has lumbar arthritis that was only found through ultrasound for what it is worth. Of course most vets do both, so you might of had it done already.

                                  Best of luck. Keep us posted.

                                  ​​​​​
                                  Yes back Xrays were clear with regard to kissing spine but no ultrasound done as far as I’m aware.

                                  i did go up this morning and tried to do some of the neurological tests with my phone set up to video. Tricky as I was on my own. Obviously I’m not a vet but doing the tail pull at walk (him walking loose in arena) I was able to pull him way over really easily, and when I raised his head and walked him up hill he started to stagger a bit behind and walk on his toes.

                                  ive just showed my vet the videos and they have brushed me off, saying neuro testing isn’t the right way to go. I disagree with them but perhaps I’m delusional.
                                  Last edited by Marzie; Aug. 28, 2020, 05:44 PM.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    For now, while trying to figure out,i would try him on Bute for about 5 days.
                                    If its neuro, you won't see any difference. Pain related you most likely will see a difference in a day or 2. The pain relief if thats the issue, will occur quickly, but it may take him a few days to change how he gets up, once he realizes it no longer hurts.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Marzie View Post
                                      Lacks self preservation, will gallop and leap without thinking if his feet are under him when he lands or corners. Has taken some big falls doing this, both in the field, in hand and under saddle (2 falls under saddle on the flat in his lifetime, 1 in hand a few weeks ago, and at least one a year in the field that I see). Possibly all linked to being hypermobile
                                      Falling in the field, under saddle, in hand would have me be thinking neuro or at least have neck checked for this. If he is falling unpredictably, I'd be very hesitant to ride him.

                                      Can you consult with a different vet/practice since you feel maybe the one that has looked at him maybe isn't doing a thorough enough workup?
                                      Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth, And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings; John Gilliespie Magee, Jr

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        My EPM horse presented this way. No other signs other than the difficulty standing up and he had to sit like a dog before he could make it. So I’m voting neurological as well though I know you don’t have EPM native In the UK.

                                        Since my horse was an older off the track STB we thought hocks/SI, etc. After clean xrays and ultrasound and a clean bill of health from the lameness vet we started looking at neuro causes.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X