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Can I just rant about platinum performance products for a sec?

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    #61
    The product is essentially Performance + Balance + a little bit of Bio Sponge.

    The Performance product is a v/m/amino type general product. The other two ingredients make it "GI." It's always been kind of a racket that any of their coverage is linked to the Performance product which is not inexpensive. And I know several people that only spend their money on Balance because the cost isn't worth it, colic coverage or not. I fed it because I liked the product and it seemed to help my horse handle hay changes and stuff like that, and I had started feeding less than a full grain ration and so he needed some v/m supplementation. I hoped I didn't need the insurance, but I was glad to have had him in the program when his regular policy dropped him for a year due to lameness issues and I could not get colic coverage because of that even with no history of colic. That seemed unfair too but there's no universal horsey healthcare.

    Ultra Cruz has their version of Performance and Balance and Bio Sponge (though not an all in one I don't think). HorseTech has a great gut product, GutWerks, and some of those ingredients are in their combo products if you want the flax and v/m/aminos part.

    Anyway, it sucks to think you don't need an insurance product and then you have a problem and wish you had it but now can't get it because of the problem, but unfortunately that's how insurance works. It's not a charitable business. It's a profit making business.

    Comment


      #62
      I think this is not the right product or service for you, OP. And that’s okay. There are a lot of things I wish I could buy but am either priced out of or not eligible for even if I wanted to pay for them.

      Your statement about blanketing is interesting - there are definitely boarding programs that are 100% full care or stuffed with “complimentary” services. If you want to board there, you pay for the blanketing (and a lot of other things) whether your horse needs them or not. It’s a business management decision. If that product doesn’t work for you, you go somewhere that allows partial or a la carte services, that clearly “discounts” for services not rendered. Both are valid, only one would be right for you.

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by Equkelly View Post
        I’m going to remove myself from this thread because I don’t think most of you are getting my point and now it’s just turned into recreational lecturing at my expense... which I’m good without. If I want to argue with people there’s plenty of better battles than defending the integrity of the equine supplement market.

        My thoughts are that if you’re going to exclude horses from coverage you shouldn’t charge as if they were entitled to that coverage. Just because you call something “complimentary” doesn’t mean it is. If your boarding barn offers “complimentary” blanketing services, or turnout, or whatever that just means that they’ve factored in that additional cost of labor into the price you pay. Same thing with colic supplement programs. Personally, I feel it’s a rip off to pay the same as somebody else if you’re unable to use the insurance. If some of you can afford to spend that much money on one supplement alone, good for you, but personally, I think you’re getting ripped off.
        Pretty sure everyone here sees the point you're trying to make and is united in trying to show you how you're making assumptions that don't pan out in the real world.

        I've boarded at plenty of barns with "things" built into the price...like a certain grain, or blanketing, or type of turnout, or whatever...and if I didn't used those services, board was NEVER discounted.

        Just like how a major medical policy with an exclusion isn't discounted.

        Just like how a supplement with comes with the ability to apply for insurance coverage isn't discounted if you're not eligible.

        These are pretty basic concepts, and Platinum Performance really doesn't deserve your vitriol.

        Comment

          Original Poster

          #64
          Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post
          OP, what do you/your vets think caused the colic?

          There are a lot of cheaper things you can do to manage GI issues, and it might be worth looking into some other options. I think the PP products are overpriced myself and don't use them. I don't think you will find any insurer willing to cover a horse with an immediate colic history.
          They’re not sure. They suspected she had some sort of enteritis. She pulled through with a few days of medical management. She’s 4 and otherwise healthy. A few months ago we were a little worried about ulcers because she suddenly dropped weight and became a little sensitive around her flank area but she’s scoped totally spotless and it resolved on its own. She’s never had any diarrhea or anything either. She lives a VERY “low risk” life for colic or ulcers. She has 24/7 turnout, unlimited access to quality forage, and is only fed a little bit of ration balancer. She gets regular dental care and deworming. She just had a very severe colic seemingly out of nowhere.

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by Equkelly View Post

            They’re not sure. They suspected she had some sort of enteritis. She pulled through with a few days of medical management. She’s 4 and otherwise healthy. A few months ago we were a little worried about ulcers because she suddenly dropped weight and became a little sensitive around her flank area but she’s scoped totally spotless and it resolved on its own. She’s never had any diarrhea or anything either. She lives a VERY “low risk” life for colic or ulcers. She has 24/7 turnout, unlimited access to quality forage, and is only fed a little bit of ration balancer. She gets regular dental care and deworming. She just had a very severe colic seemingly out of nowhere.
            Sorry, that is very frustrating. You are doing all the right things. I had a 3 yo end up with colic surgery at the trainer's, and it was so difficult because I wasn't there so I don't know what might have contributed. I actually don't have that mare on anything but a ration balancer, 24/7 turnout, and hay when the grass is low. in the past I have used Uckele's GUT product and was happy, but that horse was ulcer-prone.

            I don't think there is anything in the PP product that would necessarily help your horse if she is otherwise in good health.

            Comment

              Original Poster

              #66
              Originally posted by Redlei44 View Post
              I think this is not the right product or service for you, OP. And that’s okay. There are a lot of things I wish I could buy but am either priced out of or not eligible for even if I wanted to pay for them.

              Your statement about blanketing is interesting - there are definitely boarding programs that are 100% full care or stuffed with “complimentary” services. If you want to board there, you pay for the blanketing (and a lot of other things) whether your horse needs them or not. It’s a business management decision. If that product doesn’t work for you, you go somewhere that allows partial or a la carte services, that clearly “discounts” for services not rendered. Both are valid, only one would be right for you.
              Totally agree. The frustrating part for me is that this IS the go-to product for most vets, including mine. I would normally just say “screw that” and not look back but it’s just harder to have that attitude when it’s something your vet thinks could help. I just can’t justify the inflated cost insurance we don’t get. At least for this year.

              I would never board at a barn with a bunch of built in services I would never use and I’ve actually made that point here before. I mean most people with a retired horse aren’t going to spend 1500 a month at a huge boarding facility with all of the amenities if your horse doesn’t need any of that.

              In that situation like I said it’s easy to just say screw that and not look back like I said, it is frustrating when that’s the product your vet wants the horse to be on. That’s all. And I’m allowed to be frustrated about that no matter how much gaslighting goes on in this thread.

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by Equkelly View Post

                Totally agree. The frustrating part for me is that this IS the go-to product for most vets, including mine. I would normally just say “screw that” and not look back but it’s just harder to have that attitude when it’s something your vet thinks could help. I just can’t justify the inflated cost insurance we don’t get. At least for this year.

                I would never board at a barn with a bunch of built in services I would never use and I’ve actually made that point here before. I mean most people with a retired horse aren’t going to spend 1500 a month at a huge boarding facility with all of the amenities if your horse doesn’t need any of that.

                In that situation like I said it’s easy to just say screw that and not look back like I said, it is frustrating when that’s the product your vet wants the horse to be on. That’s all. And I’m allowed to be frustrated about that no matter how much gaslighting goes on in this thread.
                The vet wants your horse to be on that product because they get an upsell. Don't fall for it. There are plenty of comparable products for much less.

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post

                  The vet wants your horse to be on that product because they get an upsell. Don't fall for it. There are plenty of comparable products for much less.
                  This is true. I'm more outraged about this actually.

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by Equkelly View Post

                    Right but their insurance IS part of the product.
                    This is where you are wrong, at least in my eyes.

                    When my aged retired horse was having loose manure that was not responding to various other things I purchased the SmartPak supplement that offers the colic care program. I was buying a product that seemed to check the boxes for what my horse needed, not colic insurance (this horse was not a surgical candidate even if he qualified).

                    I think lots of people are like me, buy the product because they think the product will do something to help their horse. If people just want colic insurance they will shop at an insurance provider, not a supplement company.

                    Now... I am willing to say that I am sure some people pick one of these supplements over a different GI supplement because they have run some numbers and they feel that since they want the supplement anyway that this is more economical way to get the colic insurance too.

                    None that works with your theory that you should get a discount for the supplement because your horse does not qualify for the insurance.

                    Have you shopped around to see if there is some other equal product out there that does not offer the insurance that you can give your horse instead?

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by Equkelly View Post

                      Totally agree. The frustrating part for me is that this IS the go-to product for most vets, including mine. I would normally just say “screw that” and not look back but it’s just harder to have that attitude when it’s something your vet thinks could help. I just can’t justify the inflated cost insurance we don’t get. At least for this year.

                      I would never board at a barn with a bunch of built in services I would never use and I’ve actually made that point here before. I mean most people with a retired horse aren’t going to spend 1500 a month at a huge boarding facility with all of the amenities if your horse doesn’t need any of that.

                      In that situation like I said it’s easy to just say screw that and not look back like I said, it is frustrating when that’s the product your vet wants the horse to be on. That’s all. And I’m allowed to be frustrated about that no matter how much gaslighting goes on in this thread.
                      Heh. Yeah, no. I'm not talking about $1k+ full service barns and unused options. That's cute you think it's limited to those sorts of facilities, though.

                      Consensus is rare here. It would be worth while to step back, ditch the emotional response, and consider what everyone is actually saying. I realize you've not been a member for very long. Also sounds like you haven't been a horse owner for very long? And are not familiar with how insurance (any insurance...) works? There is a wealth of information available here but you have to be willing to hear it.

                      No one is gaslighting you.

                      Comment

                        Original Poster

                        #71
                        Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post

                        The vet wants your horse to be on that product because they get an upsell. Don't fall for it. There are plenty of comparable products for much less.
                        Oh I know. They spend a boat load on marketing their products to vets to recommend to us and then you just feel like “who am I to think I know better than the vets.” Same stuff but a million times worse goes on in the human world too but whatever. That’s predatory in my book.

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by Equkelly View Post

                          Oh I know. They spend a boat load on marketing their products to vets to recommend to us and then you just feel like “who am I to think I know better than the vets.” Same stuff but a million times worse goes on in the human world too but whatever. That’s predatory in my book.
                          I know the vets I use also recommend PP, but they have always been fine if I ask about using something else. They always look into the item I am asking about and have always said my other choice is fine. So why not look for something else and ask you vet about that....

                          Comment

                            Original Poster

                            #73
                            Originally posted by Simkie View Post

                            Heh. Yeah, no. I'm not talking about $1k+ full service barns and unused options. That's cute you think it's limited to those sorts of facilities, though.

                            Consensus is rare here. It would be worth while to step back, ditch the emotional response, and consider what everyone is actually saying. I realize you've not been a member for very long. Also sounds like you haven't been a horse owner for very long? And are not familiar with how insurance (any insurance...) works? There is a wealth of information available here but you have to be willing to hear it.

                            No one is gaslighting you.
                            Bandwagon fallacy.

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Originally posted by Equkelly View Post

                              Oh I know. They spend a boat load on marketing their products to vets to recommend to us and then you just feel like “who am I to think I know better than the vets.” Same stuff but a million times worse goes on in the human world too but whatever. That’s predatory in my book.
                              Do you think it's predatory for vets to recommend Purina products, without having any real information on whether a particular product is actually the best one, simply because they learned about nutrition from a brief course in vet school taught by a Purina rep?

                              I think you have greatly confused "marketing" for "predatory"
                              ______________________________
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by Equkelly View Post

                                Just because my horse coliced doesn’t mean she’s being managed poorly.
                                But THEY don't know that.

                                As well, what insurance company wants to take on a known problem? They could either charge you a lot more to help recover some of the more likely pay-out, or make you wait so they can be reasonably assured this was a one-time thing

                                She’s four, she has 24/7 turnout with access to good pasture all day long this time of year and in the winter she has 24/7 access to hay. She’s never lived in a stall in her life and the only concentrate feed she gets is one pound of ration balancer.
                                And sometimes colic just happens for no reason. It doesn't sound like it was too serious in your care, and trust me, we're all glad she's fine.

                                I get it, I've had 3 colics, 3 different horses, and the real JB is dead because of it (strangulating lipoma). Another was during later term pregnancy. Another was as a yearling, and never since in the next 20 years. I had insurance in that yearling, and you BET they excluded colic for a while after that, with zero reduction in my premiums.

                                ______________________________
                                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                Comment


                                  #76
                                  Originally posted by Equkelly View Post
                                  I came here to vent about the predatory practices of the equine supplement market. Your unsolicited advice is unnecessary and dismissive of my frustrations. If you don’t have anything helpful to say don’t say anything at all.
                                  Predatory? How is anything predatory when they are 100% up front on what their product is, and how much they believe in it?

                                  You weren't coming here to vent about the supplement market, you came to complain about not being able to get coverage for a "disease" and blamed PP (and SP) specifically for something that is 100% normal practice in the medical industry

                                  People HAVE appreciated your frustration. My yearling? He injured his RH when he was 4, and thankfully I made great use of the insurance I had. But guess what was no longer covered by my insurance, and still without a reduction in premiums? That leg. The WHOLE leg, not just the part he damaged. It was frustrating, but I understood.

                                  You have not been dismissed. Beowulf simply laid out the best insurance against colics, and that is regardless of what you have or haven't been doing, and just in case you might not have been doing one of these things which, yes, is sometimes out of your control.

                                  You're taking all this WAY too personally, when it's never been any personal commentary on your management.
                                  ______________________________
                                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                  Comment

                                    Original Poster

                                    #77
                                    Originally posted by JB View Post


                                    I think you have greatly confused "marketing" for "predatory"
                                    Your mind is going to be blown but those two concepts aren’t mutually exclusive.
                                    Last edited by Equkelly; Jun. 23, 2020, 06:42 PM. Reason: Can’t spell

                                    Comment


                                      #78
                                      Originally posted by Equkelly View Post

                                      Bandwagon fallacy.
                                      Ah, I see. Glib answer and excuse to file everyone into a category if they don't agree with you. Gotcha. 👍

                                      Why are you here if you're just looking for stroking? This really isn't that kinda place.

                                      Btw, why are you so angry about not getting what you feel is your $$s worth out of a product that you think is entirely predatory marketing?



                                      ​​​

                                      Comment


                                        #79
                                        Originally posted by Equkelly View Post
                                        . And I’m allowed to be frustrated about that no matter how much gaslighting goes on in this thread.
                                        I don't think you know what the definition of gaslighting is

                                        "Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person or a group covertly sows seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or group, making them question their own memory, perception, or judgment, often evoking in them cognitive dissonance and other changes including low self-esteem"

                                        Nobody, and I mean not a single person on this thread, is doing anything but presenting facts about how this industry works. Memory isn't a fact. Perception isn't a fact. Judgement isn't a fact. Those things may be BASED on facts, but they can also be based on non-facts, and that's what everyone is pointing out.

                                        You clearly don't understand insurance of any sort, or the definition of predatory practices. Correcting you is not gaslighting.

                                        The closest definition of predatory I can find in relation to this is about predatory lending:

                                        "Predatory lending is any lending practice that imposes unfair or abusive loan terms on a borrower. It is also any practice that convinces a borrower to accept unfair terms through deceptive, coercive, exploitative or unscrupulous actions for a loan that a borrower doesn’t need, doesn’t want or can’t afford."

                                        You (borrower) feel you need this product. So, that's out.
                                        You (borrower) fee you want this product. That's out.
                                        You (borrower) apparently can afford this product, so that's also out.

                                        Not a single person is trying to convince you to buy this product, so it's ALL out right from the start.
                                        ______________________________
                                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                        Comment


                                          #80
                                          Originally posted by Equkelly View Post

                                          Your mind is going to be blown but those two concepts aren’t mutually exclusive.
                                          Not blown, because I very much understand the difference
                                          ______________________________
                                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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