• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Organic Alfalfa Hay: Would you buy it, feed it?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Organic Alfalfa Hay: Would you buy it, feed it?

    I had to log in with a new log in as my old one would not work (formerly cheerful1).

    Here in Southern Cal., my family has an opportunity to grow Certified Organic Alfalfa, and we wonder what the thoughts are of people in the horse community. What do other horse owners think? Would you feel it was worth it to feed your horse Organic hay? Do you worry about the pesticides and chemicals applied to regular hay crops? Enough to switch to Organic?


    Any thoughts, ideas, input would be greatly appreciated!

    TIA

  • #2
    I would not pay more for organic hay. Just for the record, my dad grows hay and tried those organic fertilizers made from superseaweed one year. Production went way down in the fields he applied it to. He has not tried it again!

    Comment


    • #3
      Organic Hay

      I am an organic vegetable and grain farmer. The hay would be valuable in your rotation for many reasons, but I gather you're asking about a market.

      The organic industry has grown 20% each year for the last 10 years, so the market is definitely expanded. Horses are pets for some people and the organic pet food industry is also experiencing fantastic growth.

      If organic alfalfa (horse quality) was available in our area, I would definitely buy it. Knowing the cropping systems in our area, it stands to reason that it would not be that much more expensive to produce than conventional alfalfa.
      Alison Howard
      Homestead Farms, Maryland www.freshorganicvegetables.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Are you talking Certified Organic hay or just that it was grown organically? There is a difference. My hay that I buy is grown organically as in the guy I buy it from does not spray or use chemical fertilizer but it is not certified by QAI or OCIA.

        Regardless I would not pay more for Certified Organic.
        RIP Sucha Smooth Whiskey
        May 17,2004 - March 29, 2010
        RIP San Lena Peppy
        May 3, 1991 - March 11, 2010

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes, I would buy organic hay and even pay a dollar more per bale since I only have one horse to feed. (But I already pay $10, sigh...)
          However, it would have to be something else than alfalfa... Could you grow orchard and/or timothy grass instead, or in addition to alfalfa?

          Comment


          • #6
            Organic Alfalfa is grown a lot in this area and is sometimes sold to horse owners but most of it is sold to people raising organic beef... I only see about a 10.00 a ton difference between the organic and the standard alfalfa. If I could get someone to deliver and stack it I would order it but they seldom want to deal with smaller than 10 ton loads.
            In Celebration of all Morgan horses

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by litehold View Post
              Any thoughts, ideas, input would be greatly appreciated!
              TIA
              we buy about 350 semis a year of hay...and we would not consider buying it

              Tamara in TN
              Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
              I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

              Comment


              • #8
                I would seriously consider buying organic hay. Since it is the majority of my horses' diet, I would love the opportunity to produce a good quality organic hay rather than a chemical enhanced product.

                Tamara, why wouldn't you even consider it?????
                save lives...spay/neuter/geld

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am in Southern California and would love to have the opportunity to feed organic alfalfa to the horses.

                  It would be really nice to have organic alfalfa available for milk goats or cows as well. Not that I have either one yet but I have been thinking about it. Especially with Round-Up ready alfalfa looming on the horizon.

                  As for cost, a few more dollars a bale over regular hay prices for the horses would be o.k. but probably not $5.00 or $10.00 a bale more. Might pay that much more to feed it to one milk goat though.

                  I would be happy to work out some sort of a co-op with other area horse owners to deliver a large load and then split it amongst us. They are doing that here with local area organic produce. I think it would work great for organic hay and feed as well.

                  I have a small flock of hens that I free range. I also feed them Modesto Mills organic scratch and lay pellets. Very high quality feed. The hens look great and the eggs are delicious. I travel extra and pay more for it but it is worth it.

                  Hope that helps. It would be super if your family can make it happen!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If it was about the same price as the non-organic stuff, I'd definitely buy it. If it was considerably more expensive, I would not. I try to eat organic as much as possible myself and do the same for my animals, but since I'm running a business with my horses price does have to be a pretty significant factor.

                    I think that's what it comes down to. If you can sell it for around the same price, you'll probably do well. If you have to price it much higher, you'll probably be able to find a decent amount of 1 or 2 horse owners who will buy, but miss out on horse businesses or people with many animals. That'd be my guess, anyway, but take it for what it's worth...which isn't much.
                    exploring the relationship between horse and human

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm curious as to how you intend to control blister beetles.
                      Are you feeding your horse like a cow? www.safergrass.org

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by cls View Post
                        Especially with Round-Up ready alfalfa looming on the horizon.

                        !
                        ???

                        so what have you done differently in light of Round up Ready,soybeans,corn and sugar beets (beet bulp)?
                        have you ever grown any hay ? organically or other wise ?
                        how'd that go ?

                        Tamara in TN
                        Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                        I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fivehorses View Post
                          Tamara, why wouldn't you even consider it?????
                          there is no weed control,there is no bug control, the ground is not fertilized for the crop on top of it (so they are strip mining it basically)

                          so the end product is not something that looks like Adam cut it with his sickle in Eden, but rather something that is bleached and stunted and has little leaf retention...

                          and they will happily add a 50% premium to it for it's "organic-ness" jut for me today

                          if you live in the 1% of the world where you have no bugs,can turn the water off and have a premium soil and weeds are afraid to tread then wear it out....til then don't bother me with it- sell it to someone else

                          Tamara in TN
                          Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                          I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Tamara, if that is the case, then how do organic growers produce excellent produce for human consumption?

                            I would hope that some same practices would be utilized.

                            From what you are describing, it sounds like organic = natural, meaning no amendments are made to soil or plant to avoid pests and to provide nutrients.

                            I certainly would not be interested in buying organic if there was no nutritional value.

                            Katywatts, interesting question, I do not buy alfalfa hay, so I am not current on how blister beetles are currently being treated, but hopefully the organic people will figure something out.

                            What did they all do a 100 years ago, when there were no chemicals, etc available? Spread manures to fertilize was about the only think I am aware that may have been available, or lime too for that matter. I am sure others will add/correct me if there were chemicals used a 100 or so years ago.
                            save lives...spay/neuter/geld

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              [QUOTE]
                              Originally posted by fivehorses View Post
                              Tamara, if that is the case, then how do organic growers produce excellent produce for human consumption?
                              vegetable farms that are truly "organic" are small,very small and use lots and lots of hand labor (sometimes immigrant) sometimes raised beds and or tunnels...
                              but you must remember that the seed to harvest time on most vegetables is very short...60-90 days...the seed to harvest time on hay it very long sometimes months or even a year...and hay at 2.1 tons per acre at 200/ton that takes a year to harvest,is not as profitable as carrots at $2/pound in 45-60 days


                              What did they all do a 100 years ago, when there were no chemicals, etc available? Spread manures to fertilize was about the only think I am aware that may have been available, or lime too for that matter. I am sure others will add/correct me if there were chemicals used a 100 or so years ago.
                              yep manure and sometimes green covers...I gotta go to the horse barn but I will get my 1900's edition of "Feeds and Feeding" for some yield numbers and practices that we can compare with modern yield numbers/practices when I am done with morning chores.

                              my personal opinion of the organic racket...um market is very very low to begin with be warned

                              Tamara in TN
                              Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                              I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
                                there is no weed control,there is no bug control, the ground is not fertilized for the crop on top of it (so they are strip mining it basically)
                                Just because it's organic does not mean that there is no weed/bug control or fertilization.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by GoForAGallop View Post
                                  Just because it's organic does not mean that there is no weed/bug control or fertilization.
                                  that may be so for vegetables but it is not out personal experience with hay growers

                                  Tamara in TN
                                  Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                                  I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    From 1936 "feed and feeding" by Morrison

                                    the average bu/ac yield for dent corn was 25.2 bu/ac
                                    on an average of 101,564,000 for the years
                                    1924-1933...
                                    there was a drought in 1934 and they threw that number out
                                    as it was only 15.8 bu/ac...total yearly yield all of USA=2,559,412,000

                                    FFWD to 2008:

                                    12,400,000,000 bu total at 153.9 bu per acre
                                    and it was expected to not be enough
                                    http://www.purdue.edu/uns/x/2008a/08...rtEthanol.html



                                    Tamara in TN
                                    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                                    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      "Organic" is not better:

                                      http://www.drovers.com/news_editoria...675&ed_id=5846

                                      http://www.latimes.com/features/food...C2885942.story

                                      ---""We did not find any important differences in nutrient content between organically and conventionally produced foods," says study author Alan Dangour, a registered public health nutritionist with the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine."---

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                        "Organic" is not better:

                                        http://www.drovers.com/news_editoria...675&ed_id=5846

                                        http://www.latimes.com/features/food...C2885942.story

                                        ---""We did not find any important differences in nutrient content between organically and conventionally produced foods," says study author Alan Dangour, a registered public health nutritionist with the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine."---

                                        EXACTLY!! There is this false belief that organic is healthier and have more nutrients and that just is not true. I was a buyer for 10 years and I purchased Certified Organic raw materials for my company that makes health food and supplements. Most organics are sky high in bacteria, yeast and mold. That is not healthy for humans in such high amounts. The FDA even put something out not to long ago saying that organic is not better than conventional.

                                        I have always heard that organic was better because it was better for the land and environment but Tamara make some very intersting points that seem to prove that wrong!!
                                        RIP Sucha Smooth Whiskey
                                        May 17,2004 - March 29, 2010
                                        RIP San Lena Peppy
                                        May 3, 1991 - March 11, 2010

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X