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Copper Bits are bad? Shocking the horse's mouth?!

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  • #41
    I think it's the *horse* who should wear the tin foil hat when wearing a copper bit. Although I'm willing to bet that a tin foil GPA helmet would be the absolute in-thing on the hunter "circuit."
    "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky

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    • Original Poster

      #42
      Hey folks, let's keep this on-topic please.
      Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!

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      • #43
        So you can now use bits with two metals in dressage??? Just call me out of date.
        Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

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        • Original Poster

          #44
          Originally posted by Foxtrot's View Post
          So you can now use bits with two metals in dressage??? Just call me out of date.
          I have no clue. I don't show and I don't really ride Dressage, either.
          Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!

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          • #45
            Copper and other metals do irritate the skin to make them moist. When I want a moist mouth, I want it because the horse has a relaxed jaw, not because a metal irritated the membrane. I only use stainless steel for my horses.

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            • Original Poster

              #46
              Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
              Copper and other metals do irritate the skin to make them moist. When I want a moist mouth, I want it because the horse has a relaxed jaw, not because a metal irritated the membrane. I only use stainless steel for my horses.
              I used to ride a horse with a bit where the entire mouthpiece was covered in copper... his mouth was always dry. The few times I rode him in a stainless steel bit, it was the same dryness. Care to try and explain that?
              Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!

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              • #47
                Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
                Copper and other metals do irritate the skin to make them moist. When I want a moist mouth, I want it because the horse has a relaxed jaw, not because a metal irritated the membrane. I only use stainless steel for my horses.
                Stainless steel is a metal, or rather a combination of them.
                The Evil Chem Prof

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
                  Copper and other metals do irritate the skin to make them moist. When I want a moist mouth, I want it because the horse has a relaxed jaw, not because a metal irritated the membrane. I only use stainless steel for my horses.
                  Stainless steel is iron, nickel, and chromium. The chromium is what makes stainless stainless. It oxidizes before the iron, forming a layer that isolates the metals.

                  Reed

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by sublimequine View Post
                    Hey folks, let's keep this on-topic please.
                    Um, excuse me, but what "topic" is that? There is no topic. This is a made up topic. Its a topic for microcephalics. That's "pea-brains" for you non-scientifical types.

                    The only thing mentioned horse related and with any truth on this thread is the exchange of ions between two dissimilar metals under some (not all) circumstances. Happens all over the world all the time. It has nothing to do with creating an electrical charge. There is no electrical charge in a horse's mouth, and no possiblity of one from a bit. The echange of chemical ionic charges in metal alloys are not the same as what comes out of the wall outlets and batteries.

                    Of course, if you make up enough $%!t, you can pretend anything.

                    And who died and made you moderator?
                    Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.

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                    • #50
                      Ok... Well...

                      First, an electron moving is an electron moving... ie. current. Whether its on a micro scale or the macroscale, it is electron(s) moving

                      Second... if your horse has nerves in his mouth, then there are electrical potentials across the membranes of his nerve cells. And yes, there are changes in voltages across the membranes when there is a nerve action potential... We are, in a way, electrochemical creatures and redox reactions happen all the time in us... e.g. think of the reduction of oxygen to water as in respiration - which means electrons ARE moving.

                      Third, I personally found it an amusing and somewhat educational thread - e.g. I didn't know what made stainless steel stainless.

                      Fourth, there are quite a few posting here who I would never dare to assume were pea brains.

                      And finally, are you the new moderator?

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                      • #51
                        Originally posted by AnotherRound View Post
                        The echange of chemical ionic charges in metal alloys are not the same as what comes out of the wall outlets and batteries.
                        WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WROOOOOOONNNGGGGGG! OH SO WRONG!

                        Uh, how do you think batteries work? How do you think solar cells and fuel cells work? Talk about us being microcephalic.

                        Reed

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                        • #52
                          The echange of chemical ionic charges in metal alloys are not the same as what comes out of the wall outlets and batteries.
                          Sure it is.

                          It is EXACTLY the same as what comes out of a battery, except that it is several orders of magnitude weaker.

                          It is different from "what comes out of the wall outlet", in that the wall current is alternating, while the battery and the galvanic processes are not- as well as being several orders of magnitude weaker.
                          Janet

                          chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

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                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Foxtrot's View Post
                            So you can now use bits with two metals in dressage??? Just call me out of date.
                            Oh yes. They have been legal for QUITE a few years now.
                            Janet

                            chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

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                            • #54
                              Albert Einstein is rolling over in his grave. At the speed of light.

                              Electricity is electricity is electricity. Electrons moving around. Nothing more, nothing less, be it a battery stuck in your mouth, a nerve cell in your brain, or the high-tension wires over your house. The key, of course, is how MANY.
                              Click here before you buy.

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                              • Original Poster

                                #55
                                Originally posted by AnotherRound View Post
                                Um, excuse me, but what "topic" is that? There is no topic. This is a made up topic. Its a topic for microcephalics. That's "pea-brains" for you non-scientifical types.

                                The only thing mentioned horse related and with any truth on this thread is the exchange of ions between two dissimilar metals under some (not all) circumstances. Happens all over the world all the time. It has nothing to do with creating an electrical charge. There is no electrical charge in a horse's mouth, and no possiblity of one from a bit. The echange of chemical ionic charges in metal alloys are not the same as what comes out of the wall outlets and batteries.

                                Of course, if you make up enough $%!t, you can pretend anything.

                                And who died and made you moderator?
                                I'm trying to learn why people would think copper would shock a horse, as mentioned quite clearly in the first post. If yall want to joke about it that's fine, but it's getting in the way of the real info here.

                                If you don't like it, you don't have to post.
                                Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!

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                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by Janet View Post
                                  Oh yes. They have been legal for QUITE a few years now.
                                  Janet - that's good to hear, can you point me in the right direciton (website) for the rule change? I'm not being picky - but I sometimes help at a tack booth during Expos and it helps to know "some" rules.... and if they change, to be able to tell the shopper about it. (Although I ALWAYS tell them, it's not my responsibility to know what's legal for THEIR particular situation).

                                  If I have a piece of paper or copy of the rule, it's helpful. I know I still get those who won't buy a mixed metal bit for the horse - not even for training purposes.

                                  (I'm not a "show" person - although I have served as secretary for a Reined Cow Horse Association and worked several stock horse-type shows)

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                                  • Original Poster

                                    #57
                                    Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                                    Albert Einstein is rolling over in his grave. At the speed of light.

                                    Electricity is electricity is electricity. Electrons moving around. Nothing more, nothing less, be it a battery stuck in your mouth, a nerve cell in your brain, or the high-tension wires over your house. The key, of course, is how MANY.
                                    I loled at that first statement.

                                    I think I agree with your second statement too.. it seems that's the answer to my original question. Yes an electrical charge is created, but no, there's not enough to 'shock' the horse.
                                    Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!

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                                    • #58
                                      dressage bit rules

                                      Not Janet, but you're looking for DR 121 for the info on bits. You can find the online USEF rulebook at http://www.usef.org/contentpage2.aspx?id=rulebook

                                      It doesn't say that mixed metal bits are legal, just doesn't list them as illegal.

                                      And, yes, charge = moving electrons which can be transferred thru a metal or thru a solution containing charged species (for example, ions in saliva and other biological fluids). And it can happen it biological systems, as my fellow scientists keep pointing out.

                                      And now I must go off to the feed store to buy vetrap for today's ochem lab...
                                      The Evil Chem Prof

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #59
                                        Originally posted by Peggy View Post
                                        Not Janet, but you're looking for DR 121 for the info on bits. You can find the online USEF rulebook at http://www.usef.org/contentpage2.aspx?id=rulebook

                                        It doesn't say that mixed metal bits are legal, just doesn't list them as illegal.

                                        And, yes, charge = moving electrons which can be transferred thru a metal or thru a solution containing charged species (for example, ions in saliva and other biological fluids). And it can happen it biological systems, as my fellow scientists keep pointing out.

                                        And now I must go off to the feed store to buy vetrap for today's ochem lab...
                                        So you agree with my statement? I'm just trying to make sure I'm getting this correct.
                                        Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!

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                                        • #60
                                          Last evening I was riding at the farm with a friend. We were discussing bits (of all things!). She had read in a magazine article a few days ago that when riding and training you "should" be able to accomplish everything in a simple snaffle, and that if you were looking to change bits it should be to copper to encourage a better mouth and bit acceptance.

                                          Now, without starting another war on people doing everything in a snaffle because that is NOT what I want to do, the point to the article was that copper was a desirable bit metal.
                                          Riding the winds of change

                                          Heeling NRG Aussies
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