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Copper Bits are bad? Shocking the horse's mouth?!

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  • Original Poster

    #21
    Originally posted by RAyers View Post
    Yes.

    If you really want to test this, put a penny between your teeth in your mouth and touch your tongue to it. This works best if you have amalgam fillings.

    Reed
    Yes as in it doesn't hurt the horse, or yes as in it does?

    And I don't quite see how fillings would have anything to do with it as I don't know any horses with fillings.
    Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #22
      Alright, I got scientific and busted out the ol' coin purse.

      I tried three coins: a "wheatie" penny (95% copper), a normal penny (2.5% copper), and kinda as my dependent variable, a quarter (91% copper, actually! ).

      Here's what I did:

      -First, took wheatie penny between teeth and touched tongue to penny. Sat for one minute.

      -Second, took quarter between teeth and touched tongue to quarter. Sat for one minute.

      -Third, took new penny between teeth and touched tongue to quarter. Sat for one minute.

      Then...

      -Fourth, took wheatie penny entirely in mouth, on tongue, mouth closed. Sat for one minute.

      -Fifth, took quarter in mouth on tongue with mouth closed. Sat for one minute.

      -Sixth, took new penny in mouth on tongue with mouth closed. Sat for one minute.

      Oddly enough, I noticed NOTHING from wheatie penny and quarter. I felt a SLIGHT tingle from new penny. Perhaps because new penny was cleaner than wheatie penny? It certainly wasn't painful though, and to be honest I could hardly tell any difference at all in between all three.

      MYTH BUSTED.
      Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!

      Comment


      • #23
        Perfect! The new penny most likely was not passivated by a layer of copper oxide (the green you see on copper roofs). New pennies actually are mostly zinc and nickel.

        Reed


        Originally posted by sublimequine View Post
        Alright, I got scientific and busted out the ol' coin purse.

        I tried three coins: a "wheatie" penny (95% copper), a normal penny (2.5% copper), and kinda as my dependent variable, a quarter (91% copper, actually! ).

        Here's what I did:

        -First, took wheatie penny between teeth and touched tongue to penny. Sat for one minute.

        -Second, took quarter between teeth and touched tongue to quarter. Sat for one minute.

        -Third, took new penny between teeth and touched tongue to quarter. Sat for one minute.

        Then...

        -Fourth, took wheatie penny entirely in mouth, on tongue, mouth closed. Sat for one minute.

        -Fifth, took quarter in mouth on tongue with mouth closed. Sat for one minute.

        -Sixth, took new penny in mouth on tongue with mouth closed. Sat for one minute.

        Oddly enough, I noticed NOTHING from wheatie penny and quarter. I felt a SLIGHT tingle from new penny. Perhaps because new penny was cleaner than wheatie penny? It certainly wasn't painful though, and to be honest I could hardly tell any difference at all in between all three.

        MYTH BUSTED.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #24
          Originally posted by RAyers View Post
          Perfect! The new penny most likely was not passivated by a layer of copper oxide (the green you see on copper roofs). New pennies actually are mostly zinc and nickel.

          Reed
          So you think if the wheatie penny didn't have the green layer on it, it would've had as much 'tingle', or even more?

          Here's the composition of the three coins I used:

          1956 Wheatie Penny:
          95% Copper, 2.5% Zinc, 2.5% Tin

          2005 Normal Penny:
          97.5% Zinc, 2.5% Copper plating

          2005 Quarter:
          92% Copper, 8% Nickel plating (approx, rounded to nearest whole #)

          Who knew bit choices could be so scientific.
          Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!

          Comment


          • #25
            so, wait, you can light a light bulb just by sticking the screw-in part in your mouth? (dumb blonde moment on the screw-in part's name, and, yes, I know it wouldn't be lit like when you flip the light switch)

            Cool! I have GOT to try this!

            I wonder what my electric-generating husband would say to this? (Seriously, he runs power plants. He makes electricity)
            "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #26
              Originally posted by Kenike View Post
              so, wait, you can light a light bulb just by sticking the screw-in part in your mouth? (dumb blonde moment on the screw-in part's name, and, yes, I know it wouldn't be lit like when you flip the light switch)

              Cool! I have GOT to try this!

              I wonder what my electric-generating husband would say to this? (Seriously, he runs power plants. He makes electricity)
              You should ask him about it! We've got the science teacher's opinion, now a electrical engineer person's opinion would have us set for life!
              Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!

              Comment


              • #27
                Ew.

                I work at a bank. Do you know where that money has been????????? GROSS.
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                You can't have everything. Where would you put it all?

                Comment


                • #28
                  I thought only Uncle Fester could light a light bulb in his mouth?

                  Want to try something REALLY stupid? Put a 9V battery in your mouth and touch your tongue to both poles. You really WILL regret that one!
                  Click here before you buy.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    The germophobe part of me is praying that you doused all those coins in alcohol before you sucked on them!

                    (Of course that probably creates some other horrible reaction...haha)

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by sublimequine View Post
                      Yes as in it doesn't hurt the horse, or yes as in it does?

                      And I don't quite see how fillings would have anything to do with it as I don't know any horses with fillings.
                      Because the galvanic reaction involves electrons flowing from one metal to the other.

                      That is why bits with TWO metals used to be banned.
                      Janet

                      chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Janet View Post
                        Because the galvanic reaction involves electrons flowing from one metal to the other.

                        That is why bits with TWO metals used to be banned.
                        You can get galvanic cell with a single metal as well. It is called a concentration cell. All you need is a differential concentration in metallic ions. In a copper bit, there are plenty of alloying atoms (impurities). A pure copper metal is not cheap.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by RAyers View Post
                          You can get galvanic cell with a single metal as well. It is called a concentration cell. All you need is a differential concentration in metallic ions. In a copper bit, there are plenty of alloying atoms (impurities). A pure copper metal is not cheap.
                          So the concentration cell would involve the ions in the bit and the ions in the saliva? I'm hoping that the "copper" in the bit at least has a consistent composition, even if it's not pure copper metal.
                          The Evil Chem Prof

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by sublimequine View Post
                            So in another thread, someone mentioned that the reason horses salivate so much with copper bits, is because the copper creates an electric current in the horse's mouth, and shocks the horse, irritating its mouth! So, anyone hear of this? More importantly, anyone have some documented proof that this is the case?

                            Oh Yes!!! This can be verrrry serious!!! I have personal experience with this!! There is a strong electrical charge which passes up one leg across the tongue and down the other leg when a horse wears a copper bit! This is why you must be verrrrry careful not to pet a horse in the middle of his nose when he is wearing a copper bit! I always ask a horse owner first - "Is he wearing a copper bit?" then, when the owner says "Um, no..." I giggle and pet the horse on the nose and say "OK, good, I didn't want to get an electric shock like last time!"

                            Its why there should always be a cardiac defibrillator in a stable/barn. Once I petted a horse on the nose without asking if he was wearing a copper bit, and he was! The electrical charge was huge! I was standing on wet cement, and suddenly I went down like a felled oak. My heart had stopped! and the BO was right there, and did CPR on me and brought me back. I was lying right under the horse's head which was wearing the copper bit, when I came to, and I can tell you, his teeth glowed an eerie blue from the electricity in his mouth! You never would have even seen it if you hadn't been on the ground under neath him like I was when I woke up! He seemed fine, because he was grounded through his feet but I have never seen anything like it in my life! Scared the bejesus out of me! I almost died!!
                            Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by RAyers View Post
                              You can get galvanic cell with a single metal as well. It is called a concentration cell. All you need is a differential concentration in metallic ions. In a copper bit, there are plenty of alloying atoms (impurities). A pure copper metal is not cheap.
                              And you probably wouldn't want a pure copper bit, as it would be too soft.

                              But I would expect TWO metals (whether a two-metal bit or a copper penny and tooth fillings) would create a more noticable effect.
                              Janet

                              chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Deltawave - you beat me to it....

                                Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                                I thought only Uncle Fester could light a light bulb in his mouth?
                                Deltawave - you beat me to it.... I was thinking the exact same thing. LOL
                                Libby

                                There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". - Dave Barry

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Peggy View Post
                                  So the concentration cell would involve the ions in the bit and the ions in the saliva? I'm hoping that the "copper" in the bit at least has a consistent composition, even if it's not pure copper metal.
                                  Yes. The OH(-) and H(+) in the saliva will react with the metal releasing metal ions (M+) or metal oxides or metal hydrides.

                                  The equation is:

                                  M + OH -> MO + H(+) or M + OH -> MH +O(-) or
                                  M + H2O -> M(+) + e(-) + H2O (There are several intermediate steps in this corrosion reaction but you can see where the current comes in with the free electron.)

                                  Porbeaux did this analysis of every metal to determine it toxicity/biocompatibility.

                                  Corrosion is not dependant on the bulk composition (as you desire, Peggy) but the local composition at the micro- and atomic scales. That is a BIG challenge to making materials for medical practices. EVERYTHING corrodes because they want to get to the lowest energy state (damn lazy atoms!).

                                  Reed

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    This is why tin-foil hats are sooo important. It allows the ions to discharge through the top of the hat, thus assisting in the closing of the ozone layer and reversing global warming.

                                    Everyone should wear a tin-foil hat.

                                    Originally posted by AnotherRound View Post
                                    Oh Yes!!! This can be verrrry serious!!! I have personal experience with this!! There is a strong electrical charge which passes up one leg across the tongue and down the other leg when a horse wears a copper bit! This is why you must be verrrrry careful not to pet a horse in the middle of his nose when he is wearing a copper bit! I always ask a horse owner first - "Is he wearing a copper bit?" then, when the owner says "Um, no..." I giggle and pet the horse on the nose and say "OK, good, I didn't want to get an electric shock like last time!"

                                    Its why there should always be a cardiac defibrillator in a stable/barn. Once I petted a horse on the nose without asking if he was wearing a copper bit, and he was! The electrical charge was huge! I was standing on wet cement, and suddenly I went down like a felled oak. My heart had stopped! and the BO was right there, and did CPR on me and brought me back. I was lying right under the horse's head which was wearing the copper bit, when I came to, and I can tell you, his teeth glowed an eerie blue from the electricity in his mouth! You never would have even seen it if you hadn't been on the ground under neath him like I was when I woke up! He seemed fine, because he was grounded through his feet but I have never seen anything like it in my life! Scared the bejesus out of me! I almost died!!
                                    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                    -Rudyard Kipling

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      JSwan, I never made that connection, but it makes sense. Great suggestion!
                                      Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by AnotherRound View Post
                                        JSwan, I never made that connection, but it makes sense. Great suggestion!
                                        Huh, and I was just wearing mine for fashion. Silly me.
                                        "And now . . .off to violin-land, where all is sweetness and delicacy and harmony and there are no red-headed clients to vex us with their conundrums."

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Fluffie View Post
                                          Huh, and I was just wearing mine for fashion. Silly me.
                                          Mine keeps the aliens out of my noggin.

                                          When I chew tin foil (not a common occurance, but it has been known to happen) my permanant retainer tingles.
                                          Originally posted by tidy rabbit
                                          Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community.

                                          Comment

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