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Dangerous Boarded Horse- Can I do anything?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Casey09 View Post

    Farrier work is a basic cafe item, but apparently the owner is paying for it and it’s being done if the barn owner is charging for it and the horse owner is paying for it. Fly spray isn’t a basic card item. IME fly spray isn’t even that effective. Neither of the boarding barns I’ve used have applied fly spray to boarders horses, even for a charge. Obviously this barn does, and it worked for the barn owner to charge the absentee owner for the fly spray and the owner paid for it. Not applying fly spray isn’t a neglect issue. A horse without food or water is a neglect issue.

    The legal definition of neglect varies by location/jurisdiction.
    Further the rescue may have their own definition, based on what is stipulated in their contract [assuming they have one].
    Bottom line is that the only definitions that matter are those of the OPS area, that of the rescue involved and maybe the BO's definition as well.


    Perhaps I am jaded because of my experiences with local pet rescues, but our local rescues are not jumping up and down to take adopted dogs back - even when the owner requests and ESPECIALLY if there is a behavior problem. Realistically, if the rescue swoops in and takes the horse back (if they even can), that’s going to be very expensive for the rescue. They’re going to be taking over care of a horse that we are hearing is dangerous and unrideable. Starving or injured horses get lots of donations when the rescue uses social media to promote their cause. Dangerous horses probably do not get sympathy donations. Retraining this horse after years would be expensive, and a medical issue would probably be a needle in a haystack to find. You could try. Realistically, wouldn’t you think euthanasia would make sense here, rather than paying a vet to come out and do countless x rays and tests on a pasture puff that will have difficulty even finding a boarding barn? So now, if we are being honest, the rescue needs to come in, trailer this dangerous horse off of this property when the owner and the barn owner are saying that they’re happy to leave this situation alone. The rescue needs to find a vet willing to do an exam on said dangerous horse, and if they’re thinking clearly, put the horse down. Then they need to pay for that plus disposal. I just kind of have severe doubts that the rescue is going to be jumping up and down to swoop in and undertake this project on the urging of a fellow boarder. I could be wrong, but I just don’t see it.

    i have a horse that is a companion horse. When he was starving, the local rescue wanted him but due to the neglect and the police, the horse couldn’t cross state lines. By the time all of this was resolved, he was simply lame and not underweight. At this point, the rescue has zero interest. He wasn’t starving anymore, and so he was no longer going to bring in donations as a regular pasture sound horse. That’s just reality.

    That may not be the reality with the organizations you've been acquainted with, the couple that I personally am involved with do in fact have contracts, and will and do take animals back for a myriad of reasons.
    To illustrate that 'it depends'....
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

    Comment


    • #22
      It does depend, and it can’t hurt to ask. However, OP runs the risk of being seen as a serious busybody for contacting the rescue because really, she just doesn’t want the horse at “her” barn (or at least that’s my read on the situation).
      i guess taking a look at the rescue’s website and adoption application might give some guidance here. The OP can look up the definition of neglect where ever this is, but most of them that I have seen are minimal. Most of us go above and beyond, but realistically neglect has a legal definition.

      Comment


      • #23
        I do think it is a spiraling situation and the horse is going to be the one that loses. And the farm owner quite possibly seriously injured or killed. Has the owner been told clearly how bad things are with the horse?

        I think the rescue would want to know and intervene. But maybe that is me putting too much faith in the rescue.

        Comment


        • #24
          I've been in your shoes as a fellow boarder at a barn with an essentially abandoned horse-- sure the owner sent a check or dropped one off every month or so, but the horse had no care beyond being fed. In one case, it was a self-care situation and the horse stood in a filthy stall for 2 weeks before the BO cleaned it. This went on for several months, and the poor horse ran out of food, was stalled 24/7 in knee deep manure with no turnout or hoof care before BO took legal action. It was pretty awful and we all took pity on the poor horse. Yes, with the BOs knowledge, we took him out and cleaned his stall on our own time. The BO fed him, and turned him out. We took off his heavy stable blanket as winter turned to spring.

          I fully understand the impulse to step in and care for the neglected horse in a barn--the truly neglected/abandoned horse. Unless you've seen what the OP is dealing with, it's hard to understand.

          OP-- the barn owner and boarders need to have a meeting to discuss this situation. Only the BO can take action. It's clear from your post that the owner while paying the board, is not actually caring for the horse properly. The BO needs to meet face to face with HO and sort this out before anyone is hurt or the horse suffers more.
          Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

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          • #25
            I think it is a leap to compare a horse getting no regular care (self care barn so no stall cleaning) to a horse a full care boarding barn who gets turned out, brought in, fed, stall cleaned, feet done, fly sprayed, etc.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by 4horses View Post
              Why do all the horses have to be brought in daily? I have a small acreage (3 acres) with 4 horses. There's enough room that my old horse can be turned out full time. I move her in a dry lot at night to prevent her from digging sleeping spots out in the pasture, but if i didn't mind a few sand spots, she could be out full time.

              if this horse is dangerous, i would put him in his own paddock, away from others and leave him there. Or put up a dry lot next to the pasture and use feed to lure him in so i don't have to handle him.

              You can't convince someone to give up their horse, nor can you call the rescue to get the horse.

              It wouldn't be too difficult to set up a 12 by 24 ft dry lot to put the horse in at night. Put his feed in there, open the gate, close it behind him. Don't lead him, don't handle him.

              How does he get his feet trimmed if he is dangerous? If he's not getting trimmed, you might be able to contact the rescue for neglect.
              Yeah, but you are talking about horses you own on property you own. OP is talking about somebody else’s horse at a barn where she is a boarder so she can’t do any of this.

              Cant see contacting the rescue about a horse OP did not adopt and does not have care, custody and control of expecting them to intervene being helpful. Horse adopter is likely providing the level of care required to satisfy the adoption contract. If horse is in decent weight, has adequate food and water, is getting farrier care? Have a hard time playing the neglect card and most rescues can’t afford to seize a previously adopted horse not in dire need.

              OP can speak to BO privately. Organizing a group of boarders to demand BO take specific action will be seen as confrontational and it could split the boarders into two groups with different views on this situation, intervene to force BO to take action or MYOB. Might result in OP being the one to leave.

              After 50 years in boarding barns, you can’t force a barn owner/ manager to change their procedures. You can find another barn managed more to your liking and expectation. Their property, their business.

              Far as opinions on neglect, not so much opinion as long experience with what local jurisdictions consider neglect and what must be proved before they will step in. Long as minimum standards are met, they won’t.

              When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

              The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by walterthealter View Post

                The barn owner actually raised her board because she wasn't buying fly spray for the horse or paying the farrier so he was having to do it.

                This has been going on for 4-5 years and the horse's behavior is getting worse in that he kind of explodes-just hand grazing or grooming. He bits and lashes out aggressively and its not okay. Now nobody is comfortable handling him and we have stopped trying to help him. Now the barn owner is doing funny things with turn out and the way he handles the horse that indicates he is getting scared too. Its starting to negatively impact the care of the other horses. Something also happened last week that has me extra worried, but I won't go into that here, but the barn owner is now injured.


                I'm curious how his feet are being trimmed if he is this dangerous? And now that the barn owner is injured who is turning the horse out?

                Comment


                • #28
                  We have a similar one at my barn but trust me...NOBODY handles him except the not very horse savvy owner and that is minimal. Horse was actually his wife's and she passed away. He couldn't find anybody to take him (surprise!). Horse is now older (mid 20's) but still difficult and can be dangerous to handle. My trimmer used to trim him and she fired the client as she wasn't taking a chance on getting hurt. I think the owner relies on self-trimming. The owner of the other horse in his pasture apparently doesn't have problems with him when she gets her horse so he (the problem horse) is otherwise left alone. Not how I would handle things but as said plenty of times. Not my problem. Horse is fat and happy as long as no humans are involved.

                  Susan

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                  • #29
                    If you have concerns that you or your horse could be hurt by this horse then you should have a discussion with the BO.

                    I.e. BOs management puts you or your horse at risk.
                    other than that you have the option to move or stay and look the other way.

                    That's about it.
                    Good luck.
                    Certified Guacophobe

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by findeight View Post

                      Yeah, but you are talking about horses you own on property you own. OP is talking about somebody else’s horse at a barn where she is a boarder so she can’t do any of this.

                      Cant see contacting the rescue about a horse OP did not adopt and does not have care, custody and control of expecting them to intervene being helpful.

                      If the horses was adopted from them, they very well might have requirements for continued stewardship of the animal.
                      Further I know of some very specific situations in which someone contacted a rescue to let them know that a horse adopted form them was being cared for in a way that was substandard [a couple played out right here on COTH, no less] A good rescue would want to know, regardles of if the concern was founded, because more people looking out for their horses is a good thing.


                      Horse adopter is likely providing the level of care required to satisfy the adoption contract.

                      Not necessarily. We read on COTH all the time the ridiculous requirements some rescues have... who knows what they require
                      Things like an annual Vet exam, training, a myriad of requirements can be at play... one doesn't know either way. And this particular rescue may just have something in their contract that speaks to the present situation. Again asking is the way to find out.


                      If horse is in decent weight, has adequate food and water, is getting farrier care? Have a hard time playing the neglect card and most rescues can’t afford to seize a previously adopted horse not in dire need.

                      It's not about the rescue Seizing the animal, if the animal is technically still there's, again rescues vary on if or when they ever relinquish ownership. And 'dire' is in the eye of the beholder as well. What one rescue sees as minimal care might be far, far below what another requires.
                      Again, one can not know unless one looks into it. Which is where I would suggest the OP start. Find out some information to see if the rescue is an avenue to get the horse help, cause we all know horses like this are not easy to move on, and if something were to happen to the adopter, where would this horse go?


                      OP can speak to BO privately. Organizing a group of boarders to demand BO take specific action will be seen as confrontational and it could split the boarders into two groups with different views on this situation, intervene to force BO to take action or MYOB. Might result in OP being the one to leave.

                      After 50 years in boarding barns, you can’t force a barn owner/ manager to change their procedures. You can find another barn managed more to your liking and expectation. Their property, their business.

                      Far as opinions on neglect, not so much opinion as long experience with what local jurisdictions consider neglect and what must be proved before they will step in. Long as minimum standards are met, they won’t.
                      omg autocorrect...
                      Last edited by Angela Freda; Dec. 6, 2019, 07:38 PM.
                      Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                      http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        If the rescue is legit and a 501.3c, they should have a website and most of those do detail adoption requirements and/ or have an e mail address they moniter for inquiries. Should be pretty simple for OP to check on that without involving other boarders.

                        But IME those legit rescuer outfits with aftercare requirements do follow up. This situation is ongoing over some time.

                        Also think there may be more to this story. Usually is. Like the horse owner prefers to keep health concerns in herself or her family it other details private from the general broader population. Many assumptions being made by this first time poster who never came back.
                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by findeight View Post

                          Yeah, but you are talking about horses you own on property you own. OP is talking about somebody else’s horse at a barn where she is a boarder so she can’t do any of this.

                          Cant see contacting the rescue about a horse OP did not adopt and does not have care, custody and control of expecting them to intervene being helpful.

                          If the horses was adopted from them, they very well might have requirements for continued stewardship of the animal.
                          Further I know of some very specific situations in which someone contacted a rescue to let them know that a horse adopted form them was being cared for in a way that was substandard [a couple played out right here on COTH, no less] A good rescue would want to know, regardles of if the concern was founded, because more people looking out for their horses is a good thing.


                          Horse adopter is likely providing the level of care required to satisfy the adoption contract.

                          Not necessarily. We read on COTH all the time the ridiculous requirements some rescues have... who knows what they require
                          Things like an annual Vet exam, training, a myriad of requirements can be at play... one doesn't know either way. And this particular rescue may just have something in their contract that speaks to the present situation. Again asking is the way to find out.


                          If horse is in decent weight, has adequate food and water, is getting farrier care? Have a hard time playing the neglect card and most rescues can’t afford to seize a previously adopted horse not in dire need.

                          It's not about the rescue Seizing the animal, if the animal is technically still there's, again rescues vary on if or when they ever relinquish ownership. And 'dire' is in the eye of the beholder as well. What one rescue sees as minimal care might be far, far below what another requires.
                          Again, one can not know unless one looks into it. Which is where I would suggest the OP start. Find out some information to see if the rescue is an avenue to get the horse help, cause we all know horses like this are not easy to move on, and if something were to happen to the adopter, where would this horse go?


                          OP can speak to BO privately. Organizing a group of boarders to demand BO take specific action will be seen as confrontational and it could split the boarders into two groups with different views on this situation, intervene to force BO to take action or MYOB. Might result in OP being the one to leave.

                          After 50 years in boarding barns, you can’t force a barn owner/ manager to change their procedures. You can find another barn managed more to your liking and expectation. Their property, their business.

                          Far as opinions on neglect, not so much opinion as long experience with what local jurisdictions consider neglect and what must be proved before they will step in. Long as minimum standards are met, they won’t.
                          Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                          http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by TMares View Post
                            You can move your horse out of the facility. The end.


                            Thank you, I needed that laugh today. So correct though.
                            Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by kande04 View Post
                              Also consider that this BO may prefer owners who stop by every other month to pay vs those who are around more.
                              These were always my favourite boarders hahaha
                              Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                I am definitely not going to bash current owner for not being in a place to put a lot of money into horse. However, the deterioration in behaviour does raise the question of either some serious underlying pain or brain tumor.

                                I would brain storm with barn owner that you're worried about HIS safety and what practical measures can be done to create a safer management plan.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Number 1, you should not be handling someone else's horse without their permission. #2) There is nothing you can really do, other than tell the BO your concerns. If you or your horse's welfare are in danger, then yes, absolutely address it. If it doesn't affect you, and the BO brushes off your concerns about their safety? You can always leave.

                                  I like the suggestion of maybe suggesting setting up an area for this horse where the BO doesn't have to handle him daily to reduce the risk. Give some ideas, and drop it. Ultimately it is between the HO and the BO to determine what, if anything, needs to change.

                                  As far as calling the rescue, I think that's a bit overreaching. If the horse is in good weight, getting regular vet and farrier care, and fed daily, and in a full board situation (I mean heck, even fly sprayed!), there is no basis for neglect, IMO. How do you know the horse's deterioration in behavior wasn't from all the boarders at the barn that have routinely taken this horse out and messed around with him? Just saying...this could backfire if you go nuclear over this at the barn. Fingers could be pointed at those handling the horse without permission, even if unfounded.

                                  Stick to a matter of fact conversation with the BO about your concern for his (and everyone else's safety), and maybe propose a few cheap, easy options so that he has to handle the horse less and so that he doesn't harm anyone else.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Horses are quite happy to do nothing more than eat so your feelings that he is neglected is way off base.

                                    If he is causing harm to the BO ( who is the only one outside the owner who should ever be handling him) then it is the BO's responsibility to make changes by either having her leave or doing something to change the way he is housed( 24/7 with stall paddock etc...).

                                    When I boarded , a surprising percentage of horses never saw their owners unless it was a holiday, a special trip to show off they had a horse, or the person paid their board in person. It is just how some people have horses and you can't judge them for how much or little they handle them.

                                    I know you fear for the BO's safety but it really is his problem to handle.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Marshfield View Post
                                      I am definitely not going to bash current owner for not being in a place to put a lot of money into horse. However, the deterioration in behaviour does raise the question of either some serious underlying pain or brain tumor.
                                      Or simple things like loss of vision in one eye, etc.
                                      It does not have to be something horrible.
                                      Heck, his bad behavior might simple be because of him being allowed to get away with things when he is handled by either the barn owner or the borders who decided they should do things with him.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        How is horse dangerous? Jet will spook and play going to turnout when he is feeling frisky. Any horse can do that. Some horses will scoot thru gates when being led into turnout, others will try to pull away before you get the halter completely off. People can get hurt doing normal things with non dangerous horses. You try to minimize risk. A chain over the nose of a frisky horse, wearing a helmet, closed toed shoes/boots, etc.
                                        What did this horse do that makes him "dangerous" to the point that he needs to leave or rescue should be called? If he is on full board, getting stall cleaned, food, water, shelter, feet done, fly spray, not having injuries untreated, then he is not being neglected.
                                        Hopefully you and the other boarders had owners permission before messing with her horse.
                                        I don't see where this horse is any of the boarder's business. Maybe suggest to barn owner safe handling techniques, if he is not handling him safely, but beyond that, its not your business.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          The horse owner is paying for FULL BOARD. The barn owner, who provides the board, is OK with the situation.

                                          Really... people think the rescue can / should get involved here???

                                          There is always more to the story, and I notice the OP hasn't been back to update. But really, this seems to be very much a MYOB situation.
                                          **********
                                          We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
                                          -PaulaEdwina

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