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Feed change

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  • Feed change

    Just bought a Morgan. 950lbs. Currently on 3/4lb generic grain from schooling barn. Vet recommended Purina senior. She said to follow the directions on the bag...if my calculations are right, I will need to up her to way more grain than she gets now...should I? Totally healthy as is

  • #2
    What was vet's reason for the switch?

    3/4 lb per day? Per feeding? Either way, this is hardly anything. If the mare is in good weight on this little grain, I'd opt for a ration balancer instead of grain.
    Custom tack racks!
    www.mmeqcenter.com/tacklove.html

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    • #3
      If you make any change you do so slowly. You start with a handful and slowly up one and decrease the other. Don't make the change overnight.
      It is better to ride 5 minutes a day than it is to ride 35 minutes on a Sunday.

      Comment


      • #4
        If that's twice a day, I wouldn't really call 6-8lb "not much", especially for a horse under 1000lb.

        I also wouldn't go with Purina Sr if there are better options.

        What CAN you get? How old is the mare? And we do need clarification on whether that grain is fed once or twice a day.

        If it's just once, then honestly I'd go with a ration balancer as a start, and see how things go.

        either way, you can stop the old feed cold turkey, and just ramp up the new feed over a few days to 10/14 days or so, depending on how much you're feeding
        ______________________________
        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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        • #5
          I think she meant point 75 pounds not 3 or 4 pounds. But I could be wrong.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Ok. Yes .75lbs. I know I need to slowly transition and I am going to do what the vet says considering she is the vet and knows my horses work schedule weight health issues things like that. She is 12yrs old. (The horse, not the vet..lol) I guess I am just confused on the math

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Meganpros View Post
              Ok. Yes .75lbs. I know I need to slowly transition and I am going to do what the vet says considering she is the vet and knows my horses work schedule weight health issues things like that. She is 12yrs old. (The horse, not the vet..lol) I guess I am just confused on the math
              I read 3/4 lbs, not 3 or 4. Some horses just don't need much hard feed. The spreadsheeters will come out you with their war cry of deficiency and optimal, but in reality, horses need us to look at them and use a bit of common sense when deciding on a diet. If a horse is 12 years old and has made it that far healthy and happy on 3/4 lb of generic feed, consider yourself blessed with an easy keeper and keep an eye on her coat and feet.

              If she is doing well on that small amount of feed and you want to feed her "something," consider TC Lite, which is great for easy keepers.

              Oh and BTW, you are not allowed to post about a new horse without including a picture!!!
              "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

              Comment


              • #8
                Ohhh, .75lb

                Definitely a ration balancer then. 1 serving of that - 1lb for a roughly 1000lb horse - is fewer calories than the minimum 2lb of TC Lite for that same 1000lb horse. And 1lb of most balancers is closer to the calories of an average regular feed at 3/4 of a pound.

                Call me a "spreadsheeter", but I am all about the science of what's been studied for decades on what makes for the best results. I'm all about stacking the odds in favor of optimal health. I would much rather make sure I'm feeding for healthy feet rather than realize 9 months from now I'm not and have to play catch up.

                As for a transition, truly not a big deal in this case. Drop the old stuff, add 1/2lb of the ration balancer, add the other half in 2-3 days. If it's a taste issue, maybe dilute some molasses with water and drizzle that on or, if you soak your feed, add a drizzle to the mix, and reduce that over time.
                ______________________________
                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Meganpros View Post
                  She is 12yrs old. (The horse, not the vet..lol)
                  we have Morgans and really never even thought about switching them over to senior feeds until they were in the 20s, but ours were worked continuously by our four kids.

                  Just am wondering why the vet suggested changing your 12 year old to a senior diet

                  We also have older pony (vet's guess was he was over 25 years fifteen years ago.... so he is around 40) .. but this pony is feed free choice ... vet says he can have as much as he will eat... it is the only way we can keep weight on the lad

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Meganpros View Post
                    Ok. Yes .75lbs. I know I need to slowly transition and I am going to do what the vet says considering she is the vet and knows my horses work schedule weight health issues things like that. She is 12yrs old. (The horse, not the vet..lol) I guess I am just confused on the math

                    Yes, going from 0.75lb to “way more” is strange math if the horse is in good weight.
                    But idk why you came and asked the question, then. If you’re going to just blindly do what your vet says, it doesn’t really matter what the math is.
                    Custom tack racks!
                    www.mmeqcenter.com/tacklove.html

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JB View Post

                      Call me a "spreadsheeter", but I am all about the science of what's been studied for decades on what makes for the best results. I'm all about stacking the odds in favor of optimal health. I would much rather make sure I'm feeding for healthy feet rather than realize 9 months from now I'm not and have to play catch up.
                      I guess trying to be as educated as possible about all aspect of horse care, especially something as overlooked and often messed up as nutrition, is not allowed
                      *I have a pinball machine of a mind. I apologize in advance if I leave someone behind. Sometimes I can't even keep up*

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Meganpros View Post
                        Ok. Yes .75lbs. I know I need to slowly transition and I am going to do what the vet says considering she is the vet and knows my horses work schedule weight health issues things like that. She is 12yrs old. (The horse, not the vet..lol) I guess I am just confused on the math
                        Why would you take a horse in good weight, and take him from an extra 1000-ish calorie (beyond the forage), to in the range of 9000 calories from 6-ish lb of a Sr feed which is around what you'd be feeding?

                        Most vets know little to nothing about nutrition. They get a pitiful 1-2 courses on the basic biology of nutrition - they need more calcium the phosphorous, too much selenium is bad, that sort of thing. And most of what they are taught comes from feed reps, usually Purina. So, they recommend what they've been told is good. It's amazing how many vets absolutely have a cow over the 30% protein in ration balancers, how many still think high protein causes DOD issues, and so many other things that are myths. and just outright outdated information

                        Personally, your vet is not right here, for the reason I listed above.

                        The math is simple. The feed has a feeding rate of, say, 0.5-1.0 pounds per 100lb body weight. That means 5-10lb for a 1000lb horse. If your horse is 1200lb, that's 6-12lb.

                        Purina Sr is a complete feed, which means you can feed LOTS of it to horses who aren't eating nearly enough forage.

                        But he is, and for an average horse, they say "Do not feed less than 0.6 pounds per 100 pounds body weight of Equine Senior® horse feed per day when fed with hay to meet minimum daily requirements of protein, vitamins and minerals."

                        So you're looking at minimally 6lb, and that's a whooooole lot more calories than what he's getting now.

                        The Enrich Plus ration balancer is a far more suitable choices. The nutrition from that 6lb (roughly) with calories a lot closer to what he eats now.
                        ______________________________
                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JB View Post

                          Most vets know little to nothing about nutrition. They get a pitiful 1-2 courses on the basic biology of nutrition - they need more calcium the phosphorous, too much selenium is bad, that sort of thing. And most of what they are taught comes from feed reps, usually Purina. So, they recommend what they've been told is good. It's amazing how many vets absolutely have a cow over the 30% protein in ration balancers, how many still think high protein causes DOD issues, and so many other things that are myths. and just outright outdated information
                          Only JB is allowed to self-educate about nutrition online. If anyone else on the face of the earth, especially a vet, did not take more than 1-2 courses on nutrition, that person knows little to nothing. JB has surveyed all vets and knows for a fact that none of them, even those who own horses and breed or compete, have put the slightest bit of effort into learning about equine nutrition. Even those vets who specialize in sport horse medicine or racing. None of them know a damn thing according to JB. And we all know that JB is excluded from his or her own assessment about the criteria for obtaining nutritional knowledge because JB took exactly ZERO courses, and self-educated by reading books and online stuff.
                          "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Meganpros View Post
                            Just bought a Morgan. 950lbs. Currently on 3/4lb generic grain from schooling barn. Vet recommended Purina senior. She said to follow the directions on the bag...if my calculations are right, I will need to up her to way more grain than she gets now...should I? Totally healthy as is
                            Sounds like the grain at 3/4ths of a pound is fed as an afterthought to keep the horse happy and not as adding nutrition to the current diet?

                            With such a small amount you could feed basically anything you wanted to and not worry. My horses have almost always gotten that amount or less because they just don't need it wether in work or not.

                            I went to Purina Enrich Plus when my mare started wearing a grazing muzzle . Both she and my other mare are at 1 cup a day now, as 2 cups is more than they both need currently. They love it and that is what I would suggest to you.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JB View Post

                              Why would you take a horse in good weight, and take him from an extra 1000-ish calorie (beyond the forage), to in the range of 9000 calories from 6-ish lb of a Sr feed which is around what you'd be feeding?

                              Most vets know little to nothing about nutrition. They get a pitiful 1-2 courses on the basic biology of nutrition - they need more calcium the phosphorous, too much selenium is bad, that sort of thing. And most of what they are taught comes from feed reps, usually Purina. So, they recommend what they've been told is good. It's amazing how many vets absolutely have a cow over the 30% protein in ration balancers, how many still think high protein causes DOD issues, and so many other things that are myths. and just outright outdated information

                              Personally, your vet is not right here, for the reason I listed above.

                              The math is simple. The feed has a feeding rate of, say, 0.5-1.0 pounds per 100lb body weight. That means 5-10lb for a 1000lb horse. If your horse is 1200lb, that's 6-12lb.

                              Purina Sr is a complete feed, which means you can feed LOTS of it to horses who aren't eating nearly enough forage.

                              But he is, and for an average horse, they say "Do not feed less than 0.6 pounds per 100 pounds body weight of Equine Senior® horse feed per day when fed with hay to meet minimum daily requirements of protein, vitamins and minerals."

                              So you're looking at minimally 6lb, and that's a whooooole lot more calories than what he's getting now.

                              The Enrich Plus ration balancer is a far more suitable choices. The nutrition from that 6lb (roughly) with calories a lot closer to what he eats now.
                              Sorry, but I disagree with your assessment about vets, many have extensive feed knowledge. Ration balancers are pretty common, and I've never heard of a vet freaking out about them. I'm not sure where you heard this?

                              I'm wondering if there's some miscommunication between the OP?

                              There is nothing bad or evil about Purina, Purina Senior is a good senior feed (Although I think that Purina Impact Senior is higher quality).

                              Purina's ration balancer would be fine in this situation.
                              http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post

                                Sorry, but I disagree with your assessment about vets, many have extensive feed knowledge.
                                Of course some do. But it IS a fact that their nutritional training is very little. Dr Sarah Ralston has been on here validating that. Ghazzu knows what vet schools teach.

                                But do *you* understand why the OP's vet would say "hey, this horse is in good weight, he's getting less than 1lb of a feed, but let's put him on 6+lb of a Sr feed"? Why would anyone do that?

                                Ration balancers are pretty common, and I've never heard of a vet freaking out about them. I'm not sure where you heard this?
                                Many times right here on COTH. Many of my friends' vets come to ask me why, if ration balancers are so popular and I like and recommend them a lot, would a vet tell them it's too high in protein, that a horse shouldn't have more than 10-12% protein?


                                There is nothing bad or evil about Purina, Purina Senior is a good senior feed (Although I think that Purina Impact Senior is higher quality).
                                Purina isn't my choice, I want to know exact ingredients, but there's nothing inherently wrong with the Purina brand in general. I simply disagree that the Sr, ANY Sr, is appropriate *from a calorie perspective* in this case. Go from 1000 calories-ish to 6000 on a good weight 1000lb-ish horse and he's likely going to be fat.

                                Purina's ration balancer would be fine in this situation.
                                Agree.
                                ______________________________
                                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  IMHO, the suggestion of a ration balancer is a good one.
                                  I'd not add substantial amounts of concentrate to the diet of an animal that was doing fine on mainly forage.

                                  "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                                  ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by JB View Post
                                    Of course some do. But it IS a fact that their nutritional training is very little. Dr Sarah Ralston has been on here validating that. Ghazzu knows what vet schools teach.
                                    How many nutrition courses did you take in vet school? Why are you so insistent that the only way a vet can obtain knowledge about nutrition is in vet school, yet you, who did not go to vet school or even major in anything related to nutrition, and took ZERO courses in nutrition, consider yourself more knowledgeable than a vet about nutrition?

                                    I can see a vet recommending Purina Senior IF the barn feeds Purina and can reliably get the product, and IF the horse is going from a light work schedule to a heavy work schedule, and possibly IF the barn does not have a good, reliable supply of hay. These three factors are important when considering feed choices.

                                    Did you learn anything anything about exercise or product availability or forage by toodling around online?
                                    "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      We don't know what the OP told the vet, so it's not fair to assume the vet's an idiot who doesn't know how to feed horses.
                                      http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        If the horse is being fed enough good-quality forage, the suggestion to start feeding a high-calorie complete feed that is designed to help keep weight on elderly horses to a 12 year old Morgan (a breed known for being pretty easy to keep weight on! ) is a tough one to follow. I've fed Purina Sr (Evolution) in the past and had good luck with it for my elderly hard keepers, but it seems an odd choice for this situation.

                                        If it's to get nutrients/vitamins into the horse, I'd personally go with a hay test (if reasonable) and supplement anything missing via either a vitamin premix or individual supplementation depending what's deficient/adequately supplied via hay. If hay testing isn't feasible, I'd figure out what is generally deficient/abundant in the area and supplement for that. EG: I'm super lucky, my forage has the correct Ca:P ratio on its own and supplies everything needed save for Copper, Zinc, Sodium, and Selenium so I supplement my mare with those things mixed in with some timothy pellets for palatability.

                                        If I couldn't have my hay tested, I'd know to supp for copper and zinc and selenium based on my area. A government agriculture office can probably give you some insight into the general mix in your region and you can choose a supplement based on that.

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