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Pyloric Ulcers!😭

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  • Pyloric Ulcers!😭

    Why isn't there someone out there in this world that can help horses with pyloric ulcers. We've done all types of medications. Since April. I'm at a total loss.

  • #2
    Oww sorry to read this. I take it you have posted about this before, did you have a repeat scope that showed no healing?
    Which meds have you used? Was the dosage high enough.
    Is the horse in work or rested?

    I have a horse that had pyloric ulcers too as well as hindgut ulcers and remains very prone for re-occurrence.
    He healed previously, but at present I'm wondering if he's relapsing.

    My boy healed on Misoprostol and Sulcrafate, but the dosage was high.
    Due to his size and his hindgut ulcers the vet decided against Gastrogard, told me at his size a treatment dose would be 2 to 2,5 tube a day, maintenance 1/day.

    I am maintaining him on Vitalyze, Outlast, glutamine & cerv. boulardii.
    I'm looking into adding something, no idea what yet or else repeat the Miso/Sulcra.

    A friend of mine also has a horse that scoped with pyloric ulcers, she did a lot of research and told me that often pyloric ulcers are secondary to kissing spines. I was kind of shocked & in disbelief over such, but then looked into it and there may be something to it.

    Hoping you can find something that works.

    Comment


    • #3
      You might want to follow eclipse posts. In rare cases some horses to respond to antibiotics.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by Lieslot View Post
        Oww sorry to read this. I take it you have posted about this before, did you have a repeat scope that showed no healing?
        Which meds have you used? Was the dosage high enough.
        Is the horse in work or rested?

        I have a horse that had pyloric ulcers too as well as hindgut ulcers and remains very prone for re-occurrence.
        He healed previously, but at present I'm wondering if he's relapsing.

        My boy healed on Misoprostol and Sulcrafate, but the dosage was high.
        Due to his size and his hindgut ulcers the vet decided against Gastrogard, told me at his size a treatment dose would be 2 to 2,5 tube a day, maintenance 1/day.

        I am maintaining him on Vitalyze, Outlast, glutamine & cerv. boulardii.
        I'm looking into adding something, no idea what yet or else repeat the Miso/Sulcra.

        A friend of mine also has a horse that scoped with pyloric ulcers, she did a lot of research and told me that often pyloric ulcers are secondary to kissing spines. I was kind of shocked & in disbelief over such, but then looked into it and there may be something to it.

        Hoping you can find something that works.
        6 wks of miso, sucral, and GG=resgope, no change other than the few squamous ones were healed.
        then several months of miso and sucralfate before riding. Rescope=no change. Still on compounded miso and sucralfate. Pyloric area swollen also and I'm afraid it will inhibit gastric emptying at some point.
        She's had an orthopedic work up and her entire neck and spine were x-rayed. No kissing spine but she does have arthritis from the T18 to L3 or L4 which I imagine a lot of horses have. We got the orthopedic issues addressed and she's been great in that respect. I've also figured out that she's extremely sensitive to girth pressure but I don't think the ulcers are causing that, but rathet the other way around.
        Every saddle used on this horse moves around side to side and slides forward. When I really tightened the girth which moves up behind her elbow she gets very sensitive on her sides. I'm still working on the correct combination of saddle and girth but that's a whole process. The horse has hay in front of her at all times or she's out on grass. I'm just had my wits and.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Maude View Post
          She's had an orthopedic work up and her entire neck and spine were x-rayed. No kissing spine but she does have arthritis from the T18 to L3 or L4 which I imagine a lot of horses have. We got the orthopedic issues addressed and she's been great in that respect.
          At least you know. I am planning on getting my guy's back X-rayed as well, so at least I have an idea.
          I suspect SI arthritis, he is always so tight behind the saddle & in the croup when I warm him up. You are right, many have arthritis in the lumbar region.

          Originally posted by Maude View Post
          I've also figured out that she's extremely sensitive to girth pressure but I don't think the ulcers are causing that, but rathet the other way around.
          Every saddle used on this horse moves around side to side and slides forward. When I really tightened the girth which moves up behind her elbow she gets very sensitive on her sides. I'm still working on the correct combination of saddle and girth but that's a whole process.
          Similar here, I actually had to resort to riding with a very good non-slip pad so I can leave the girth one hole looser.
          I've been through saddlefit struggles here too, finally think I found it.

          Originally posted by Maude View Post
          The horse has hay in front of her at all times or she's out on grass. I'm just had my wits and.
          Same here, he gets so very much hay, when stalled & when out. 3 kinds of hay, meadow, timothy & alfalfa, add to that FibreBeet, Alfa-lox, Safe Starch chop and his Carbguard, I can't imagine I'm still missing something.
          But I've come to realize he's actually more stressed then he lets out to believe. He's outwardly very calm, but he internatilizes stress.
          Right now he's out in a large paddock with his 2 buddies next to him. It's windy, he's not used to that anymore, so he feels anxious and wants to be with the other 2, but when I put them together, they hurt each other and kick each other. If I put him with just the oldie, he overpowers him so much, poor senior gets so lame he can barely walk. So I can't win here.
          He's happiest when everyone is stabled, whilst that may be good for his ulcery situation, it's not good for my oldie nor my other horse.

          Have you tried Outlast?
          I am upping the Outlast, so he now gets it every 6 hours to keep the PH up at all time. This involves my hubby having to do a midnite check .

          How often did you give the Sucra? Similar to the Outlast my vet suggested I use it every 6 hours, so there's no lapse in coating of the ulcers, it was a struggle to time this, but I managed to make it work.
          The GG, I have mixed feelings about, but my boy also struggles with hindgut ulcers, hence not advisable.

          I don't know what to suggest really, also looking for ideas.

          Comment


          • #6
            What is she being fed?
            How often is she out?
            Is she stalled?
            AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012

            Comment


            • #7
              One if my horses has dealt with ulcers off/on since 2012.

              He is 24, a pasture pet, and a train wreck, having to deal with IR, founder, an old sacrum fracture that he re-fractured this year AND dislocated a vertebra in addition. The refracture was due to a hail storm, which both horses were running/spinning along the fence. They were only a couple hundred feet from the open barn but going in there would have made sense----

              Anyway, I just finished the first phase of the Egusin treatment plan and am in the first days of the second phase.

              http://www.centauranimalhealth.com/egusin/Egusin.htm

              It is really pricey, I bought it thru Valley Vet -- I THINK it's helping some but I don't think it's going to be a magic bullet and make the gastric issues disappear. So far he has stopped kicking at himself, stopped biting himself, and the constant running his teeth down the angle iron of his stall has slowed way down ( his stall is pipe panel).

              Being IR, he only gets Timothy pellets as a carrier for the supplements he needs. He's on his own ~5 acres daily without a muzzle as he is in remission. The other horse is a bully so gets to enjoy the other 19 acres all by himself

              Both horses are stalled at night with locally grown orchard mix hay. They have their own entrances to the barn and can get in whenever they want.

              to reiterate, the Egusin is pricey but I think I am seeing some improvement

              Comment


              • #8
                From your posts it is a bit unclear but if you are feeding the sucralfate at the same time as another medication you are limiting the effectiveness of both meds. Sucralfate really needs to be fed with no other meds and it only stays in the system for about 6hrs so it is best fed 2-3 times a day seperate from their meals.

                Have you done a month of treatment without riding her? It sounds like you're having saddle fit issues as well which is counter productive to treatment.

                All in all, I'd look into the timing of the meds as well as doing everything you can in your management of her to make the process easier. If there is still no improvement, see if they can take a sample of the ulcers and culture them, antibiotics might be needed.
                "I'm too sexy for my blanket, too sexy for my blanket, these mares-they should take it..." (J-Lu) - Featuring The Skypizzle Pony aka Classic Skyline

                Comment


                • #9
                  M In 2017 my horse had a very bad colic in which we were given a poor prognosis. I did not subject him to surgery and he was not given any hope for survival but he surprised all my vets. For the first month after his reflux colic I fed him grass, water, hay and gastrogard (no vitamin mineral supplement nothing) I was afraid to even feed him a carrot. His colic was not caused by just ulcers but he had a history of them. A month after his colic I added platinum performance vitamin mineral supplement. I eventually switched him to a less expensive vitamin mineral supplement and organic soaked alfalfa pellets and flax oil. I keep him on a 1/4 tube of gastrogard daily and probably will for the rest of his life as prevention as my vets and the internal medicine specialists he has been evaluated by recommend this for long term management/prevention. He was evaluated by the internal medicine specialist in 2018 with scope and abdominal ultrasound and she found nothing wrong with him said he appeared to be a healthy horse. She still felt 1/4 tube of gastrogard was safe for long term prevention.

                  Antibiotics are not the normal protocol for gastric ulcers but some horses will not heal without them. Antibiotics run the risk of making the ulcers symptoms worse but sometimes it’s a last attempt I have known of horses whom would not heal without them.


                  Best wishes with your beloved mare!
                  Last edited by Fharoah; Oct. 21, 2019, 11:28 AM.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Hawks Nest View Post
                    From your posts it is a bit unclear but if you are feeding the sucralfate at the same time as another medication you are limiting the effectiveness of both meds. Sucralfate really needs to be fed with no other meds and it only stays in the system for about 6hrs so it is best fed 2-3 times a day seperate from their meals.

                    Have you done a month of treatment without riding her? It sounds like you're having saddle fit issues as well which is counter productive to treatment.

                    All in all, I'd look into the timing of the meds as well as doing everything you can in your management of her to make the process easier. If there is still no improvement, see if they can take a sample of the ulcers and culture them, antibiotics might be needed.
                    Now all the meds were spaced out properly and gastro guard given on an empty stomach. Sucralfate is not given with other meds. Biopsy was done and showed nothing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Maude View Post

                      Now all the meds were spaced out properly and gastro guard given on an empty stomach. Sucralfate is not given with other meds. Biopsy was done and showed nothing.
                      Hmm, my next suggestion would be getting in touch with a specialist to see if they have any second opinions or other drug options.
                      "I'm too sexy for my blanket, too sexy for my blanket, these mares-they should take it..." (J-Lu) - Featuring The Skypizzle Pony aka Classic Skyline

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Glandular and pylori ulcers can be very hard to resolve. It sounds from a treatment perspective you have tried most of the available options. You are getting some good suggestions here that I also would have suggested so I will just add a couple of things that have not been mentioned. You could try Seabuckthorn berry juice which is sold by EnviroEquine in the form of SeaBuck7 or Ulcer+ which has added ale. This product was researched in a university trial and found that when horses were on intermittent diets, those fed the Seabuckthorn has fewer and less severe glandular ulcers. Another product they sell that has also been shown to reduce ulcer is the iFEED feeder. This can be used to program delivery of very small meal around the clock. In the horses that were brought in to work and fed their pelleted feed each day in 20 small meals versus the same amount of total feed in 2 meals a day those fed in the 20 small meals had fewer ulcers.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Have you tried dosing sulcrate 4 times a day?

                          I had also discussed Ranitidine with the internal medicine specialist which also needed to be given every six hours.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You can search for my old thread - Drug Resistant Ulcers. We treated for 18 months. My vets are excellent and we consulted specialists in the US and Europe. Maybe there is some option listed out there that you haven't tried yet? If nothing else, I can sympathize!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Check out "Marshmallow Root powder", and "Slippery Elm Bark powder" - I get it in bulk at Monterey Bay Spice Co.

                              I did some research and started one of mine on these, and it has made such a dramatic difference.

                              She is doing great. I mix 1 tbsp of each a day, with a little water and a couple of tbsp of canned pumpkin. She loves it. I have not had her scoped recently (will re-scope soon), but, her demeanor and health has improved so drastically that its become clear what has happened. There are no bad long term side affects, and she can be on it forever.

                              Note: She also gets GutWerks: https://horsetech.com/gutwerks


                              Not saying it will for sure work for your situation, but, it may worth a look and some research for ya. And run it by your vet too.
                              Last edited by Jumpin_Horses; Oct. 21, 2019, 03:33 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Have you tried Stride Animals Healths products? We've had fabulous luck with the 21 day hind gut ulcer protocall, GI Calm, and we also use Chaffehay and Outlast. We have two that have dealt with ulcers for many years. Now 11 months of no GG, Sucralfate, or Miso. They are maintaining well on outlast, chaffehay, ADR (from Stride) and/or GI Calm (from Stride)

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by M Martin View Post
                                  Have you tried Stride Animals Healths products? We've had fabulous luck with the 21 day hind gut ulcer protocall, GI Calm, and we also use Chaffehay and Outlast. We have two that have dealt with ulcers for many years. Now 11 months of no GG, Sucralfate, or Miso. They are maintaining well on outlast, chaffehay, ADR (from Stride) and/or GI Calm (from Stride)
                                  My horse is currently on Outlast and has been on the ADR powder for years. She does not tolerate alfalfa well. I'm currently working with my vet, the scoping vet, and drug manufacturer on a plan. Recent information has indicated that some of these horses whose ulcers are resistant to the medications and healing are in fact Cushing's. Cushing's inhibits the healing process and makes horses more susceptible to infections. The fact that my mother has Cushing's and 4 of her relatives that I know of including the grandsire have all died of Cushing's complications that could be a real possibility. Since they secrete more cortisol which is a stress hormone that can suppress the immune system, coupled with her being in almost constant heat which is again a stressor I think all of the above may be incorporated in information for our treatment plan going forward. Thanks for your response.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    i have no new ideas, but just wanted to send you a virtual hug. i hope you find a solution

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by EmilyM View Post
                                      i have no new ideas, but just wanted to send you a virtual hug. i hope you find a solution
                                      ❤❤❤🐎

                                      Comment

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