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Strange hole in horses frog.*thrush and diet; diet gurus please chime in

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  • Strange hole in horses frog.*thrush and diet; diet gurus please chime in

    Just returned from a 5 day business trip and went to check on my thbd. When I picked out his feet the right hind has a hole near the frog/heel area right in the middle. It is DRY and we are on sand so it isn't thrush. It does not look like any sort of trauma created it. He is sound and didn't seem to be bothered when I poked around with a hoofpick.

    He is barefoot behind and has pretty good feet for a thbd. He is trimmed/reset every 5 weeks and not due until Sept 8.

    What the heck is it?
    Last edited by sisu27; Aug. 20, 2010, 11:07 AM.
    "look deep into his pedigree. Look for the name of a one-of-a-kind horse who lends to his kin a fierce tenacity, a will of iron, a look of eagles. Look & know that Slew is still very much with us."

  • #2
    Central Sulcis
    Eric Russell CJF

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    • #3
      Define "hole"
      ______________________________
      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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      • #4
        Shed

        Horses will shed the frog and sometimes it wears away gradually and is less noticed and some wet years it just stays rubbery and doesn't wear off. Some farriers keep a very neat frog and trim it and some wont touch the frog and sole and it gets all flappy and ragged. PatO

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by eruss View Post
          Central Sulcis
          Closer to heel. Almost like a split but no signs of any actual trauma, tearing, puncture....

          I will try to get a picture.

          ETA....just found this and it looks quite similar:
          http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7449

          How could it be thrush? Horse has never had thrush, even last summer which was wet and he spent all day in his pond. This year, dry, on sand, no pond????
          "look deep into his pedigree. Look for the name of a one-of-a-kind horse who lends to his kin a fierce tenacity, a will of iron, a look of eagles. Look & know that Slew is still very much with us."

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Further research and I am thinking diet related thrush.

            Recently removed the pro/pre-biotic from his supplement regime.
            Gets a scoop of Recovery and Source with Tri-Max (Canadian equivalent of Ultium) every day.
            Was on grass until paddocks got lean then on grass hay for last 3 weeks. Had a soft swelling in ankle of effected foot (sound, no heat, not changed by work) so combined with my crazy work schedule this summer has been out of work.

            Did I create the perfect storm for thrush to happen?

            Should I revert back to previous diet ASAP?

            Any harm in treating for thrush if it is something else and what is the best treatment?

            After 25 years of owning horses I have never had a case of thrush and feel woefully lacking in knowledge. I will speak with my farrier but am wondering if he should have noticed something in the first place.
            "look deep into his pedigree. Look for the name of a one-of-a-kind horse who lends to his kin a fierce tenacity, a will of iron, a look of eagles. Look & know that Slew is still very much with us."

            Comment


            • #7
              How could it be thrush? Horse has never had thrush, even last summer which was wet and he spent all day in his pond. This year, dry, on sand, no pond????
              IME, thrush has little to do with living conditions.

              Good article on thrush: http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=11097

              A horse's hoof travels through some seriously nasty places. As a result it is bombarded with bacteria. So what keeps horses from continually oozing pus from infected feet? According to Stephen O'Grady, DVM, MRCVS, of Northern Virginia Equine, horses have a self-cleaning mechanism that helps maintain a healthy balance of bacteria in the hoof. However, if this mechanism is hindered, infection (such as thrush) can occur.
              Thrush is an infection of the horse's frog. Bacteria invade the frog tissue adjacent to the sulci (the grooves on either side of the frog) and produce an offensive odor and a black discharge. If the infection progresses long enough, sensitive tissue might become involved, which can cause serious and sometimes permanent lameness.

              Causes
              Many types of bacterium can cause thrush, although Fusobacterium necrophorum is a common player. This bacterium is an anaerobic (survives without oxygen) organism that has the ability to invade and infect the frog's sensitive horny tissue.

              It is a common perception that thrush is caused by poor hygiene and unclean living conditions. However, O'Grady explains, "this may not be totally accurate. The horse possesses a natural hoof-cleaning mechanism. In the nomad foot, as weight is borne on the limb, the third phalanx (coffin bone) will descend, causing the sole to flatten. Descent of the coffin joint occurs as the navicular bone gives in a distopalmar direction (from the coffin bone toward the ground), pushing against the navicular bursa and the deep flexor tendon, causing expansion of the frog as it approaches the ground surface. This continuous change in structure prevents the accumulation of material in the bottom of the foot.

              "Impairment of this hoof-cleaning mechanism appears to be the outstanding cause of thrush, as thrush is seen in a large percentage of animals that are kept in immaculate conditions, whereas other horses that live in a filthy environment never contract the problem," he explains.

              O'Grady says chronic lameness, improper hoof trimming, and insufficient exercise can reduce the effectiveness of this mechanism and increase the risk of infection.
              He explains, "Chronic lameness, especially when involving the heel area, causes decreased weight bearing, which, in turn, causes inadequate heel expansion and decreased wear on the horny wall."
              This causes the heels to grow longer, which causes the frog to recess. A horse is unable to naturally clean these deep, narrow cavities, and the bacteria are trapped.

              "Improper and irregular hoof trimming also leads to improper balance and increased length of the heels, causing impairment of the natural hoof-cleaning mechanism," O'Grady adds. "Normal exercise is vitally important to promote normal physiology of the foot structures and to prevent organic material from packing into the sulci of the frog."

              Treatment
              Generally, thrush is a mild disease that is easy to treat. There are several commercial products available that are effective in treating thrush. However, if the causative factors (chronic lameness, improper hoof balance, or insufficient exercise) are not corrected, the infection will likely return.

              O'Grady says, "Treatment is directed at restoring the normal physiology of the foot through proper balance and trimming, adequate exercise to encourage frog stimulation, and debridement of all devitalized (dead) tissue."

              Once the necrotic (dead) tissue has been removed, you can treat the area with an antiseptic (such as 2% iodine) or astringent (drying agent) preparation. Be sure to discuss the appropriate course of treatment with your veterinarian because it is possible to overtreat the infection and cause chemical burns or other damage to the area.

              Take-Home Message
              Thrush in a horse used to be a stigma for the owner; the condition was considered an indication of poor horsekeeping. However, even well-managed horses can get thrush if they have hoof imbalances. By cleaning your horse's hooves daily, you can help prevent this infection from occurring even in a horse with poor hoof conformation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Tomorrow-mastitis treatment for cows

                best treatment for thrush I have used is called Tomorrow. My farrier turned me on to it. It is a cow mastitis treatment and you put a tiny bit on the thrush and it goes away. I usually only end up needing to use it for a week or so before I see the thrush is gone.

                Love it, always have a few tubes around in case I need it.

                One of our local tack stores here in Raleigh has strated to carry it now. Before I was buying it at the local Tractor Supply or my farrier was bringing some to me.
                "Because right now, this is a job. If I advance any higher, this would be my career. And if this were my career, I'd have to throw myself in front of a train."
                Jim Halpert

                Comment


                • #9
                  Where in raleigh do get tomorrow udder treatment

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    One can treat the Thrush but if the mechanical cause of the 'hole' is not addressed then the topical will do little good. In the hoof shown on horseshoes there is some pretty serious contraction of the heels going on. That is a major cause of deeper central sulcus than what is 'normal'. The 'normal, healthy' central sulcus should be merely like a 'thumbprint'. Just a slight depression. This allows the frog to expand with the heels upon loading of the hoof. But, with contracted hooves/heels you're going to see the frog 'squished together' and a deeper crevice is formed simply from the mechanics. That deep crevice becomes a 5-star hotel for bacteria and fungus to hide. It's perfect -- anaerobic and moist. The little buggers thrive in such a habitat. So again, one can go ahead and kill the bacteria (Thrush) and/or the fungus (Yeast) but if other areas are not addressed then they'll only pick up residence again.

                    Here -- for comparison: http://www.barefoottrim.com/STUDENTS/img2.jpg
                    --Gwen <><
                    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
                    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by EventingHorsesDoItAll! View Post
                      best treatment for thrush I have used is called Tomorrow. My farrier turned me on to it. It is a cow mastitis treatment and you put a tiny bit on the thrush and it goes away. I usually only end up needing to use it for a week or so before I see the thrush is gone.

                      Love it, always have a few tubes around in case I need it.

                      One of our local tack stores here in Raleigh has strated to carry it now. Before I was buying it at the local Tractor Supply or my farrier was bringing some to me.
                      This. I used it on my TB. He had it in 3 hooves when I bought him Hasn't had it since

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ponytchr View Post
                        Where in raleigh do get tomorrow udder treatment
                        M&M Tack Store has it
                        Marquetry Magic - "E-Bay" 11MAR1995 - 27DEC2008 - RIP wonderful boy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I also love the Tomorrow for thrush, but I find it works even better if you apply it and then sprinkle Wonder Dust on top and pack it down into the crevasses. It makes a paste and stays in longer.

                          Caitlin
                          Caitlin
                          *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
                          http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

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