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31yo arab with persistent nosebleed and mass by throat latch

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  • #21
    Good luck with whatever you decide. I know he has been healthy but at 31 will the surgery be risky for him?


    • #22
      Standing thyroidectomy seems to be a pretty safe and uncomplicated procedure - and even less complicated than lying down as things "fall into place" and are more easily accessible. And certainly the sedation for a standing surgery is much less than for lying down. Horses tend to do very well with this surgery, and it's pretty much removed for reasons of tumors, from what I recently read (because there's another thread on a horse who had his removed).

      I've been following this, and wish you the best of luck.
      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


      • #23
        I just want to say thank you to you for the excellent care you are giving this horse.

        I am so sorry for this situation, but I know you are making all the best decisions for him.

        Show me your horse and I will tell you who you are.


        • #24
          Janet, so sorry to read of the diagnosis and prognosis {{Janet}}

          IMO, a bit comforting that all the DVMs are on board with the same thoughts and feelings. I think much harder when prognosis is divided between vets.

          Re Dr Miller, if you get a chance, tell him that he's still a hero to me for a chestnut mare in 2001 at LLAC with 2 colic surgeries (he did the second) about 36 hours apart and 4 weeks at LLAC

          Sounds like your boy is in good hands will all involved wanting the best care for him
          Maybe the reason I love animals so much is because the only time they have broken my heart is when they've crossed that rainbow bridge


          • #25
            I have nothing but love and compassion for you both. What a lucky boy Red is to have you in his corner! Sending good vibes and jingles for whatever you decide. ((((((((Janet)))))) ((((((((Red)))))))


            • Original Poster

              It brings tears to my eyes to read your posts. Thank you so much for the support and kind words!

              Yesterday, I started contacting top thyroidectomy specialists across the country. They are having a hard time connecting the nosebleed/face fluid with the thyroid tumor, are questioning diagnosis, and believe surgery may be an option, but need more diagnostics. So, my regular vet was out this morning to take xrays, more blood-work, and have a thorough dental check done. He said sinuses are clear, no major dental issues, but detected bone calcification in inner ear that he wonders if related to the ataxia episode last month. He said Red was perkier and his coat was shinier than when he saw him last week. The mass and face swelling not increasing. Vet thinks dex is keeping progression at bay for now.

              Both vets' chart notes, xrays and blood tests results will be emailed to me within in a few hours, so I can forward to specialists with the pathology report I received yesterday.

              I am now in contact with Colo State U, the closest quality hospital and beginning the flow of information to them. I should have a lot more information in the next day or so. So long as Red stays steady, the ideal plan is to wait until weekend before heading to Colorado, but only if CSU has reviewed all materials and has a treatment plan.


              • Original Poster

                CSU is reviewing Red's records and I am supposed to hear something today. The file has also been sent to WSU and KSU specialists. Red is holding steady, but the blood loss is starting to take its toll, and he is now slightly anemic, so we've added red-cell to his daily meds.

                We are prepared to leave for CSU tomorrow.


                • Original Poster

                  Dr. Brad Nelson from CSU called me back!! He reviewed the records and strongly believes tumor not causing nosebleeds. Nelson's primary concern is finding source of bleed and stopping it, but believes with a scope and ultrasound, he can. He's not so concerned about tumor.

                  Dr Nelson says since Red has stayed relatively stable since onset of nosebleeds 10 days ago, we do not have to drop everything and race there today. So we are scheduled to check-in to CSU at 7pm Sunday, to get him settled for a big Monday of tests and procedures. It will take us 7-8 hours to drive there.

                  So back to scope and ruling out GPM. Seriously? Can lightning strike my family twice??


                  • #29
                    My horse's mother had what may be similar to yours - she was a foal at the time - she went to WSU under a Dr Katz (who may be gone now) and they did a wonderful job and were so darned kind in the process as we were in Canada.
                    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


                    • Original Poster

                      Well, we all know the fun and not-so-fun thrill that an end-of-life rollercoaster rides give us.

                      Last night, I received a call from Laurie Beard @ KSU. She is an endocrine disease specialist. She also confirms thyroid tumor not causing bleed. However, she noted a lesion in the guttural pouch on the xrays which she believes is the source of the bleed. She said this lesion is far more complicated than guttural pouch mycosis and is extremely concerned that it is inoperable. She strongly suggests I find a place locally to have Red scoped. I find it interesting that neither my regular dvm (who took the images) or Brad Nelson mentioned seeing this lesion.

                      Hubby and I are now in deep discussions on if it is fair on Red to put him through a 430 mile trip to CSU vs. taking him on an 80 mile trip to have him scoped, understanding that if scope does not confirm inoperable, we'd then have to trek him to CSU for treatment.


                      • #31
                        Can you get CSU and KSU in communication with each other to see if they can reach a consensus on what to do and make an updated recommendation about going to CSU vs scoping closer to home?

                        Tough choice for sure. I have thoughts on what I'd do but don't want to cloud your decision. I've been on an equine healthcare roller coasters and it was no fun at all...

                        Keep us posted!

                        Maybe the reason I love animals so much is because the only time they have broken my heart is when they've crossed that rainbow bridge


                        • Original Poster

                          My friend, Jen Gold, another top specialist out of WSU, just called. She says she also sees the lesion on xrays, but is much more optimistic about treatment than Laurie Beard (who she knows personally). She very strongly encouraged me to go directly to CSU. Arrangements are made to depart tomorrow.


                          • #33
                            Janet, keep us posted on your CSU visit. IMO, sounds like the strategy I'd be choosing. Yeah, a long trailer ride but a place hopefully for thorough diagnostics and treatment.

                            Maybe the reason I love animals so much is because the only time they have broken my heart is when they've crossed that rainbow bridge


                            • #34
                              I'm so impressed you've taken such great care of your horse


                              • Original Poster

                                Quick update. Red has been at CSU since Monday. They see lesion in guttural pouch, but not gpm. Not sure what it is or why face swollen. But they have an idea to do experimental embolization procedure with cardio surgeon. CT in conjunction with surgery scheduled for first thing tomorrow. The primary dvm Eileen Hackett has been amazing and I believe she is 100% invested in helping him. If anyone can save him, I believe she can.


                                • #36
                                  Sincerest wishes for a great outcome for a verrry much loved horse and his devoted best pal. And steady hands, Doc.


                                  • #37
                                    Best wishes for Red and you. You're a dedicated horse parent!


                                    • #38
                                      Read this thread a few days ago and just thinking of your old guy. Hope everything is going well!


                                      • Original Poster

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                                        Final update. On Thursday morning, Red went under general anesthesia for ct scan guided surgery to remove what they thought was a guttural pouch tumor. Upon scan, much to the doctors' shock, they discovered the tumor originated in salivary gland and had spread considerably. So, I decided it was best to let him go while he was still under anesthesia.

                                        Since Red's case was so incredibly rare, I agreed to allow CSU opportunity to do post-mortem study so they can learn as much as they can to hopefully help horses in the future. Afterward, they will send head/heart/hooves to private crematory place, and remains will be shipped home to me.

                                        Red was the best horse anyone could ever have, especially for a first-timer learning to ride in her 30s. After 17 wonderful years, it is so very hard to say goodbye.

                                        Attached Files


                                        • #40
                                          Red was a very lucky horse to have you as his person. You gave him as much as he gave you.

                                          Hugs and happy memories to you. Thanks for sharing the wonderful photos. More hugs.